ADV, AFH, CMC, ETC

U R Lost Wrote:What I mean for the Skyrian is that if it's damaged (that is, it has the thermometer icon), then it generates 1G.

I understood what you ment. I'm just saying that odds are it will just get blown away in one shot, so the ability won't really do much to make the card more useful. That is, unless you want to do as Blue commented and make it like the 0/22 NPC.

Gildward Wrote:Melrak Follower:
Speed Summoning: *cough*

*cough*

You really are obsessed with getcard >.>
Anyway, what does that means? That's a 5/10 zero cost speed summoned creature. ...are you saying making a 1 mana speed summoned non-unique is bad? Good? Tastes like butter?

The third one, but that's besides the point. Even at 10/6 with the speed summoning, Melrak Follower suddenly becomes a lot better than Chookie; unless you want to implement my old suggestion for Chookie and make it do an extra 10 damage when attacking the player directly...

I also say no to speed summon because of interaction with Melrak Bearer. I realize Melrak Bearer is weak by itself, but I don't like that if you can protect one, you get 1 lasers.

Kelar Citizen: web suggested "into play: top deck an effect". Also could do "into play: top deck a Kelar Warrior", though that one might be too good with Kelar General.
Actually, "into play: top deck a Manamancer" would be pretty nice as it actually combos with having the Citizen in play.

Melrak Follower: I suggest that given our limitations on space and expansion, we just go with the +att/-life every turn. We can balance the specific numbers during the stat balance phase (also note this works as sorta an odd boost to Norlaan Prime's ability).

Space would be less of a concern if 'topdecking' was official CMC terminology...
I wouldn't give Skyrian Soldier an 'Generates if damaged' ability because it's a soldier. Soldiers don't do that kinda thing.
And whoops, apparently Internet Explorer can't work out to send the cards to the next line in my previous post. I'll edit that once I'm able.

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Still accepted?
Skeleton - Destroyed: Owner gains a Magic Skull in hand
Lowly Slime - Destroy Lowly Slime, target slime gains 50% of Lowly Slime's stats
Holy Acolyte - Draw phase: Owner gains 4 life
Fairy - Leave play: Gain (Nontoken only)
K-Army Guy - Destroyed: All heroes lose 3 attack
Evil Soldier - Damages a dizzy monster: That monster takes an additional 5 damage
Gremlin - Destroyed: Opponent takes 5 damage. (Nontoken only)
Mubble - 50% chance to dizzy target monster, lose this ability
Skyrian Soldier - Target entity is flipped face up (Did anyone object to this?)

New proposals
Kelar Citizen - Into play: The bottommost effect in your deck is put on top (I'd personally think of this as a drawback a lot of the time. If this fails we can go for dark elf gets +3/+3.)
Melrak Follower - Draw phase: Gains +2/+0
Lokar Guard - Into play: The bottommost Soldier in your deck is put on top

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For topdecking, what's the thoughts on defining/keywording 'topdeck' as a CMC term? Such as 'Topdeck a soldier type card' or (Topdeck: Soldier) ? I mean, there are already more topdeckers than there are Quick Hitters or Decoys (Magical Academy, Construction Kit, Energy Surplus, Arms Locker). Plus it's not hard to guess what it means anyway, save for the omitted 'bottommost'.

For Kelar citizen, how about
Draw Phase: All dak elves have 50% chance of gaining +1/+1 ?

Oh, and when and if this is all implemented, will there be a newspost or something?

If there's more than just a couple of cards being changed, there's usually a newspost about it, but I can't say for certain that there will be.

Kelar Citizen: I'd rather pay for +3/+3 than bet on a 50% chance to gain +1/+1. I wonder about free "target elf gets +2/+2".
I know we keep throwing these out there but would "Draw Phase: If Elven City Kel'sor is in play, 50% chance draw a card" be acceptable?
If the Citizens could generate 1.5 with Kel'sor, I would of accepted the first proposal for Kelar Citizen.

Skyrian:

azulknight Wrote:Second: Chronology. It was mentioned in the beginning and then seemed to fall to the wayside. As I see it:
...
Skyrian Soldier: Facedown didn't exist till Holiday Present.

Ultros Wrote:I hadn't considered it before, since it wasn't touched upon beyond the first post or so, but I think you're right about chronology. I say that keywords are all we should make fit, since it's not really that obvious at a glance that certain additions to the code (such as abilities targetting creatures or players, or cards checking to see if they were damaged) were introduced in certain sets. The introduction of keywords, however, is set-defining, and I agree that these should be preserved.

This is how the idea for Skyrian was "rejected". It seems to be bad ju-ju to have older cards with newer abilities.

Melrak Follower: Would rather wait for the stat balancing part before giving actual values to +att/+ or -life, but accept.
Lokar Guard: Accpet.

I would prefer if the 1/2 mana proposals didn't specifically use other specific cards (excepting themselves, i suppose): no kel'sor, no manamancer.

It's okay for them to have a synergy ability, but not a pairing one.

Basically I think these cards shouldn't be
A) limited to being useful when a certain other card is being used or
B) limited to being useful when certain expansions are being used.

I think It's okay to give a card Face Down (perhaps... Kelar Shadow?), but it is not okay to give a pre-MC card -interaction- with face down.
It is okay to give a card interaction with Dark Elves but not for any particular Dark Elf.

webrunner himself suggested giving Kelar Citizen a topdecking ability, while people oppose giving a face down ability to Skyrian Guard? The time difference between Clash and Holiday Present isn't all that dissimilar to the difference between Prime and Magical Academy is it? Sniperposted again. Okay, that explains the rationale quite well, and makes more sense than arbitrary approval for some things and not for others. Makes perfect sense now.

That changes our Kelar Citizen (we'll go for activated ability to boost dark elves), and Skyrian Soldier. I think the only other proposal we've had for Skyrian's been managain when damaged, and we don't want to change the card that much (ie by giving it favourable 0/20+ stats to be able to use the ability), plus it's not flavourful for a soldier. I'll suggest (Quick Hit) for now - if you object say so and suggest something else as usual. Hmm... I guess we should throw out K-Army Guy as well (interaction limited to opponent using heroes, ie Clash/War)... and we need a non-Khrima specific ability too. I'll start with something random, feel free to suggest better ideas.
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And +2/+0 for Follower is just a placeholder bonus. Just seems easier to me to have a number up there than to put +X/+Y.

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Currently Accepted:
Skeleton - Destroyed: Owner gains a Magic Skull in hand
Lowly Slime - Destroy Lowly Slime, target slime gains 50% of Lowly Slime's stats
Holy Acolyte - Draw phase: Owner gains 4 life
Fairy - Leave play: Gain (Nontoken only)
Evil Soldier - Damages a dizzy monster: That monster takes an additional 5 damage
Gremlin - Destroyed: Opponent takes 5 damage. (Nontoken only)
Mubble - 50% chance to dizzy target monster, lose this ability
Melrak Follower - Draw phase: Gains +2/+0 (or similar)
Lokar Guard - Into play: The bottommost Soldier in your deck is put on top

New proposals
Kelar Citizen - Target dark elf gains +3/+3.
Skyrian Soldier - (Quick Hit)
K-Army Guy - Target monster loses 2 attack. (They use nerf guns, right?)

Why not let Kelar Citizen promote?

Something like:

3 Kelar Citizen becomes Kelar Warrior
(with the numberous alternatives, becomes random non-unique dark elf, can only promote if opponent controls N monsters, etc.)

How about Entrenching (and maybe a few stat points drop) for Skyrian?

For K-army, armies are normally stronger in mass, so...
"Draw Phase: If you control 4 other soliders, K-army Guy gains +5/+5 until end of turn"
"Has +2 attack for every other soldier you control."
etc.

BlackFox Wrote:Why not let Kelar Citizen promote?

webrunner Wrote:I would prefer if the 1/2 mana proposals didn't specifically use other specific cards (excepting themselves, i suppose): no kel'sor, no manamancer.

K-Army Guy: He's really a gray area even by web's terms, due to Hero Hair and other cards that actually theme around that (Ramjet Arms, Letter to the Heros, Plot this Way, Southcorp, etc.) But I'm really against multiple 1 coster synergy bonuses; at least stat ones. As I've said, I've made an effective deck using ONLY 1-costing monster K-Guy. They don't need to be more powerful in bulk, just individually.
Unless anyone objects, I think "target monster loses 3 attack" would be fine. Either way accept.

Kelar Citizen: The best idea we have given the stipulations, accept.

Skyrian Soldier: These are all shots in the dark:
End turn: heal
Target soldier gets +1/+2
Second Life:
Dark: 50%
Light: 50%
Grey: 50%
If Skyrian Soldier kills a monster, that monster is instead obliterated
15% chance target effect dizzies B speed

How about this for Skyrian Soldier

If enemy controls any Grey(or dark, or light) effect, Skyrian Soldier is unblockable
or
DLG damage: 75%

or, even better, just raise his stats.

@masa: Quick Hit's from War. Chronology again doesn't like it... furthermore, that'll mostly be useless except on Dark monsters with low life. I'll back K-army Guy, though. Citizen... I'm fine with it, but I'm tempted to suggest we just flat out make him a killable neutral charm and make him gen .

Skyrian Soldier: Let's see, besides the whole intuition/magical attunity thing, Skyrians have shown up here and here, where the picture's from. So we can do a thing based off their ability to fly or their... pushiness?

Well, URPGH, would you play Skyrian Soldier if he had higher stats? I doubt I would. Abilities that could get it played are the intent here.

Completely ignore stats for now. ALL the one costers are going to get stat changes of some sort depending on their ability. The thing being we just need to decide on an ability.

EDIT:
Skyrian: How about this: Target monster's type changed to "eggplant" (or soldier if you want to be serious).

azulknight Wrote:I also say no to speed summon because of interaction with Melrak Bearer. I realize Melrak Bearer is weak by itself, but I don't like that if you can protect one, you get 1 lasers.

That is a very good point. I know the idea is dead, I just wanted to point that out.

nekomasa Wrote:Melrak Follower - Draw phase: Gains +2/+0

I like that much better than the +?/-1 idea. No reason to hurt it's life more.

Gildward Wrote:Kelar Citizen: I'd rather pay for +3/+3 than bet on a 50% chance to gain +1/+1. I wonder about free "target elf gets +2/+2".

I wouldn't mind 1 for +3/+3 or a free +2/+2. Heck, I wouldn't mind a free +3/+3 >.>

Gildward Wrote:Skyrian Soldier: These are all shots in the dark:
End turn: heal
Target soldier gets +1/+2
Second Life:
Dark: 50%
Light: 50%
Grey: 50%
If Skyrian Soldier kills a monster, that monster is instead obliterated
15% chance target effect dizzies B speed

Give it all of em : P
Seriously though, as it's a later set card, I could see it getting more than one of these. Lets say:
Draw Phase: All other soldiers gain +1/+1
If Skyrian Soldier would kill a monster, it is obliterated instead
Edit: Quick Edit is AWESOME

I'm hesitant about "draw phase: give all other soldiers +1/+1" as that leads back to my fear of a 1 coster good enough to use in a deck as the sole monster.
But something like DG 80% + If Skyrian Soldier would kill a monster, it is obliterated instead sounds fairly good.

Btw, do you happen to know the difference between quick edit and full edit?

Mmm hmm. Quick edit opens it... well, honestly just try it yourself. It's easier than explaining it.
I can understand the hesitation. Maybe if they didn't get a life increase? Then they would still be vunerable to Mountains, ect.

Seems we've for the most part got a consensus on Kelar Citizen and K-Army Guy. Kinda. Tell me if I'm wrong.
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By crushing up Skyrian Soldier's ability text, we can have at most 2 lines of text. Long worded abilities and multiple abilities just aren't really feasible for it.
Anyway, for Skyrians, we know that they can fly, have magical attunity and, well, the soldiers are soldiers. So, bearing that in mind, we can hopefully trim out most of the suggestions:

End turn: Heal self (arbitrary and out of flavour)

Target soldier gets +1/+2 (seems balanced, could work well - useful for breaking breakpoints)

Second Life: (arbitrary and out of flavour)

(DLG Damage: 50%) (seems arbitrary - you'd think magical attunity would mean resistance to snipes/spells, not actual combat damage)

Destroys a monster: That monster is instead obliterated [i](again, arbitrary, although it'd be cool on a future monster)

:dizzy: 15% chance target effect dizzies (seems somewhat arbitrary - also nobody would ever use it due to general disliking of randomness)

If enemy controls a (Colour) effect, Skyrian Soldier is unblockable (this could be attributed the flight and possibly magical attunity - I like this)

Quick Hit (out of chronology)

Target monster loses its types and gains type soldier (a reuseable deregister? seems completely random, and not really in flavour, also see below)

Target monster gains type soldier (a bit odd that skyrian soldier goes out recruiting - also completely pointless, as the only soldier synergy would be topdecking, which is meaningless to cards in play)

Draw phase: All other soldiers gain +1/+1 (In a soldier themed deck, that'd be a completely free up to +4/+4 per turn, for each one. With how cheap some soldiers are, could be fairly powerful)
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I would say for now we try and decide amongst ourselves from one of these. Of course, if we can't agree we'll move onto other ideas, but until then let's stick to just these three. If you could say which of these you'd agree to, and which is your preferred, we shouldn't take too long:

Target soldier gets +1/+2
If enemy controls a Grey effect, Skyrian Soldier is unblockable
Draw phase: All other soldiers gain +1/+0