ADV, AFH, CMC, ETC

Upping their stats would make them favourable for rush.
Giving them overpowered offensive abilities would also make them favourable for rush.
These aren't mutually exclusive.

Giving them minor abilties would make them at least somewhat useable, and on occasion useful, without making them brilliant. I think this is what we're after.

we don't need a dozen 'flavorful because they suck' cards, do we?

Yeah, we've got Gildward, Chookie and the Clash Eternals for that already.

I think Exile was refering to the +3 direct damage ability you gave to K-Army Guy; though that only proves your point more fully so his post is still confussing (his new deck focused on K-Guy rush with turn four 170 direct damage, so really he just proved that uping the attack isn't the way to go).

But that's the thing, it was an attempt at a nice new ability that went wrong. It wasn't meant to enable turn 4 kills with it. And it's not like it can't be fixed either, or that it's destined to fail every time.

Exactly.
Getting back on track: unless someone objects, Skyrian can have on/off ability/spell immunity.

1) K-Army Guy: Into play: All soldiers gain 2 life
2) Skeleton: Reduce sac to 1
3) Skyrian Soldier: Toggle whether this has (Spell Immune) and (Ability Immune)
4) Mubble: Into play: Undizzy self ???

So we have agreement on 1 and 2, agreement so far on 3, and 4 is a mystery?

Which would be better:
> Toggle spell and ability immune
> toggle BETWEEN spell and ability immune

webrunner Wrote:I think the stat changes are extremly minor and don't need to be covered as early. Maybe go through the 2 costers first, and then do the 1 and 2 coster stats together (because if you're 'afraid' of getting into 2 coster territory, what happens if later the '2 coster territory' changes when you do the 2 costers?)

Makes sense.

Dorii Wrote:1) K-Army Guy: Into play: All soldiers gain 2 life
2) Skeleton: Reduce sac to 1
3) Skyrian Soldier: Toggle whether this has (Spell Immune) and (Ability Immune)
4) Mubble: Into play: Undizzy self ???

1 and 2 sound fine. I'm sorry, but I don't have a clue what 4 is supposed to mean. As for Skyrian, switch from Spell Immune and Ability Immune to no immunities.

Mubble: Masa wants to remove the flavor text as it's not terribly flavorful and we need the room to add an "into play" ability to make the card worth playing over just generating the tokens via Mubble Woods.
Basically, waiting on web to give the "go" that removing the flavor text for that 1 card is acceptable given the circumstances.

Oh, alright, it's in addition to the current ability. I thought it was going to replace it, and thus my confusion >.>
Sounds fine to me, at worst it will make Mubble Woods a luck based swimsuit.

webrunner Wrote:Which would be better:
> Toggle spell and ability immune
> toggle BETWEEN spell and ability immune

Toggle between would be better I think. Easier to have it make sense in a shorter space, and just seems more interesting.

I'm fine with either.

So are we just okay with kelar citizens? Really?

We're giving skyrians the option of toggling between two powerful abilities. Soldiers gain attack boosts and now have synergy for no apparent reason. And we're going to go ahead and forget about kelar citizen, who has a useless ability that frankly, serves little to no purpose?

Huh.

Suggestions:

There are a number of abilities that require the discarding of a card to activate. Perhaps sticking a discard a card cost onto the kelar citizen would work? Someone mentioned a "Give target Kelar +12/+12 option". I like that option, as stat-wise kelars are relatively disadvantaged when compared to other synergy-heavy groups. Perhaps giving a discard cost? IE:

Discard a card. Target Kelar gains +12/+12 till end of the turn.

Or even a lower stat boost. The idea makes sense to me. And if you argue about flavor and how theyr'e supposed to be producing, they're producing arms and armor. Shush.

Other thoughts:

2 Discard a card, deal 5X damage to target player, where X=Number of Kelars in play (Too strong? I'd say not)

Additionally, since there are no Kelar citizen tokens...how about something like "Destroyed: All kelars gain +3/+3". Or, one I sort of like, "Destroyed: All kelars take 10 damage and gain Quick Strike till end of turn", though I agree that's retardedly overpowered, it just occurred to me at random.

Also a fun thought, not really serious:

4 Transforms into copy of target Kelar with -10/-10 to stats.

Any feedback? I really think this card needs changing.

This is why I'm VERY thankful web gave us some examples to go by. Your ideas, while creative, go every which way and aside from personal preference, would be impossible to justify.

Web has given 2 propositions involving Effects, so any idea has to incorporate Effects. If we don't have a standard, this thread will be just like the many ones before it where everyone threw valid but radically different ideas all about and we ended up not getting anywhere.

All that aside, all the 1 costers are going to get stat changes. The worse the ability, the better the stat change. Would you still be unhappy with a 5/25 3 sac Kelar Citizen with End turn: gains +2 temporary life for every effect in play until draw phase? Not actually proposing stats but giving an example.

Blue_Elite Wrote:Web has given 2 propositions involving Effects, so any idea has to incorporate Effects. If we don't have a standard, this thread will be just like the many ones before it where everyone threw valid but radically different ideas all about and we ended up not getting anywhere.

Thats all fine, if there's a good effect concept. I've yet to see one that makes Kelar Cit in the same range of usefulness as any of the rebalanced 1 mana cards.

Blue_Elite Wrote:All that aside, all the 1 costers are going to get stat changes. The worse the ability, the better the stat change. Would you still be unhappy with a 5/25 3 sac Kelar Citizen with End turn: gains +2 temporary life for every effect in play until draw phase? Not actually proposing stats but giving an example.

I would be, as that's... a terrible idea. It just makes it an unflavorful, bad wall. Know this is hypothetical, just wanna drop my opinion incase someone decides to run with it.

Half wall, half bucket, does crap damage.

I wouldn't be happy with it either.

It makes much more sense to me that a bunch of trained soldiers would gain a synergy, than a bunch of people that just happen to be the same race gaining synergy.

And lol, calling Skyrian's immunity abilities powerful =P

Well in defense of Kelar Citizen's current ability at least in a thematic sense; look at Orc Farms from WCIII. You can hind peons in them to be protected and attack. Of course, Kel'sor isn't really what I'd call a "fortress" so the Citizens only gain defense (life) points from there being "buildings" (effects) arround to protect them.
I'd agree that the temp life isn't much, but it's the best idea we're gotten considering the constraints so far. Mana generation is too hard to balance as would card drawing. Not to mention that we have a limited amount of room with which to work with text-wise.

Kelar Citizen's ability does pretty much allow it to kill the other 1 mana monsters and live - against some of the monsters and with enough effects, indefinitely.

But really, Citizens make for good Manamancer synergy, and gaining temp life every turn just makes them less susceptible to being picked off by Slime Travellers/Red Goops/Snipers etc.

I still don't see what'd be wrong with Draw phase/End turn temp life.