ADV, AFH, CMC, ETC

Triple drat!

Also tarnation, phooey, and why not some Friskin Fraskin Varmints while we're at it?

personally I think being able to do that is pretty cool

it's just fair you know?

like...would you want to play CMC if sometimes someones arm breaker was S speed and your I shield was E?
well...people probably still would
and that's fine
I know I would

but from a competitive POV that's complete bullshit and frustrating as hell

Would S speed counters even work? They don't go on the resolve stack, so technically nothing resolves after them...

Not saying you don't make a point, just wondering as to how that could work.

But yeah, for something casual like this, I wouldn't mind using the program (or the DS, though I'd have to find a hotspot due to the firewall here).

it doesn't
I'm just talking and stuff
not making much sense probably
like usual

(12-08-2009 04:45 AM)NOLDER Wrote: [ -> ]like...would you want to play CMC if sometimes someones arm breaker was S speed and your I shield was E?

Well, I play against people that have a playset of Year One Cakes while I don't.

And that's not considered cheating, hence having the best stats/IV/moves can't be. As it just means you've been playing longer.

(12-08-2009 05:58 AM)Haplo_64 Wrote: [ -> ]And that's not considered cheating, hence having the best stats/IV/moves can't be. As it just means you've been playing longer.

See my "winning the jackpot on the lottery six times" analogy. There's playing for longer, and then there's having a million monkeys hatching pokémon until you eventually get Shakespeare a perfect team.

all shoddy does is give everyone a playset of everything (in cmc terms)

I really don't see how that's bad from a competitive POV
it just evens things out and makes battling based solely on skill (for the most part anyway)

from a collectors POV I can see how it would piss people off
getting a battle worthy shiny charmander and then training it to level 100 takes a lot of effort

but that's where shoddy comes in
if you just want to battle (which is, I'm assuming, what this thread is all about) it's an ideal time saver

If there were ultra-rare cards that you have a one-in-a-billion chance of getting in a booster pack, then yes, it'd be a suitable comparison.

I'm afraid I don't understand that last post
could you explain it?
also
do you think you could move this conversation to the pokemon thread?
I feel like we're cluttering whompers thread....

The odds of getting a perfect IV pokémon is 1/32⁶, ie 1/1,073,741,824 (one in a billion). That's before considering nature (50% chance with an Everstone/Synchronise? 1 in two billion) and gender (if it matters).

So it's like everyone having a playset of Remembrances to use, except instead of being rarity 98, you only get one for every billion cards.

Which makes the comparison to CMC just a little less valid...

And if Whomper wants conversation split off, he can either ask for it to move or split it himself. We're still talking about the differences between netplay through a program and legit netplay via DS.

(12-08-2009 07:42 AM)NOLDER Wrote: [ -> ]all shoddy does is give everyone a playset of everything (in cmc terms)

Precisely. That would be like moving CMC to the dev server and letting everyone play with every card. Sure it sounds cool, but it gets boring and repetitive REALLY fast. Which is why...

(12-08-2009 07:42 AM)NOLDER Wrote: [ -> ]if you just want to battle (which is, I'm assuming, what this thread is all about) it's an ideal time saver

...this assumption is incorrect. This league is not about playing the player with the best skills and "saving time"; it is about rewarding people who wanted to put forth the most effort. As such, I am here to state that this league will be a DS-only league. Any shmuck on the internet can google up a good pokemon team on a whim and win with it; that's not what this is about.

If you wish to run a Shoddy-based version of this, please feel free to copy/paste the rules into a new thread and go from there.

I see where you're coming from!... also I think your accented é is backwards.

Can you explain the one in a billion thing? Not a serious poke trainer, so you've lost me...

Pokémon's stats are determined by a few factors:

1) What pokémon it is. Pikachu has different stats to Charizard. This is both obvious and boring.

2) The pokémon's level. A multiplier, again somewhat obvious.

3) How the pokémon has been trained (Effort Values or EVs). Each pokémon defeated, as well as things like Carbos and Proteins, add an amount of EVs that get translated into extra stat points (up to a certain limit).

4) A random pre-determined factor (Individual Values or IVs). Each pokémon has randomised values for each stat between 0-31. These translate to additional stats as well - basically a pokémon with a Defence IV of 31 will have 31 more Defence than a pokémon with a Defence IV of 0 by the time it's level 100, all other factors being the same.

---

It's number 4, the IVs, where "legal" netplay pokémon differ from legit pokémon. If you automatically have IVs of 31 to your six stats that's a bonus 186 statpoints compared to a mean of 93, so a sizeable difference. And the odds of naturally getting such a perfect pokémon are 1/32⁶ (1/32 for each stat, ^6 for six stats), which is approximately one in a billion chance.

Or lower chance if you want a beneficial nature (that gives +10% to one stat and -10% to another stat), and lower chance again if you want a specific gender (for evolutions, charm abilities, etc).

(12-08-2009 10:43 AM)Whomper Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-08-2009 07:42 AM)NOLDER Wrote: [ -> ]all shoddy does is give everyone a playset of everything (in cmc terms)

Precisely. That would be like moving CMC to the dev server and letting everyone play with every card. Sure it sounds cool, but it gets boring and repetitive REALLY fast. Which is why...

not REALLY
the metagame of pokemon is just like that of CMC
people constantly thinking up new ways to counter the current one
which can lead to circle metagaming from time to time (pack counter spells, people stop using spells, you stop using counters, they start using spells again, ect, ect, ect)
and if the shifting of the metagame isn't enough on it's own the pokemon company shifts things around too with new movesets with new games (and eventually new pokemon though this can't always be counted on)

yeah it can get boring in that you'll see a lot of the same pokemon doing the same thing often
but that's just because it's top tier and it's glaringly obvious to even those people who don't follow the metagame at all

(12-08-2009 10:43 AM)Whomper Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-08-2009 07:42 AM)NOLDER Wrote: [ -> ]if you just want to battle (which is, I'm assuming, what this thread is all about) it's an ideal time saver

...this assumption is incorrect. This league is not about playing the player with the best skills and "saving time"; it is about rewarding people who wanted to put forth the most effort. As such, I am here to state that this league will be a DS-only league. Any shmuck on the internet can google up a good pokemon team on a whim and win with it; that's not what this is about.

If you wish to run a Shoddy-based version of this, please feel free to copy/paste the rules into a new thread and go from there.

I see
that was my mistake I suppose
I have some pokemon I've been meaning to train anyway so I could probably rustle up a team...

and yeah I might but I'll wait to see how this goes first

(12-08-2009 12:20 PM)masamunemaniac Wrote: [ -> ]Pokémon's stats are determined by a few factors:

1) What pokémon it is. Pikachu has different stats to Charizard. This is both obvious and boring.

2) The pokémon's level. A multiplier, again somewhat obvious.

3) How the pokémon has been trained (Effort Values or EVs). Each pokémon defeated, as well as things like Carbos and Proteins, add an amount of EVs that get translated into extra stat points (up to a certain limit).

4) A random pre-determined factor (Individual Values or IVs). Each pokémon has randomised values for each stat between 0-31. These translate to additional stats as well - basically a pokémon with a Defence IV of 31 will have 31 more Defence than a pokémon with a Defence IV of 0 by the time it's level 100, all other factors being the same.

---

It's number 4, the IVs, where "legal" netplay pokémon differ from legit pokémon. If you automatically have IVs of 31 to your six stats that's a bonus 186 statpoints compared to a mean of 93, so a sizeable difference. And the odds of naturally getting such a perfect pokémon are 1/32⁶ (1/32 for each stat, ^6 for six stats), which is approximately one in a billion chance.

Or lower chance if you want a beneficial nature (that gives +10% to one stat and -10% to another stat), and lower chance again if you want a specific gender (for evolutions, charm abilities, etc).

Also, IVs are what determine Hidden Power's type and power. In normal play, getting an HP whose type is right for your pokemon (say a Jolteon with HP ice to counter ground and dragon types) and a decent power is almost impossible, making move sets that rely on it totally useless, and a couple of pokemon significantly less powerful.

(12-08-2009 10:43 AM)Whomper Wrote: [ -> ]...this assumption is incorrect. This league is not about playing the player with the best skills and "saving time"; it is about rewarding people who wanted to put forth the most effort. As such, I am here to state that this league will be a DS-only league. Any shmuck on the internet can google up a good pokemon team on a whim and win with it; that's not what this is about.

If you wish to run a Shoddy-based version of this, please feel free to copy/paste the rules into a new thread and go from there.

This makes sense, and such a case, neat. Good luck!

@Masa: Um? No? Not only is it unnecessary to have all 31 IVs-- in competitive leagues, you'll find that most people will have at least four or five IVs at 31/30 and a rest in the upper 20's. For this League, you could just put a cap on that sort of thing, example "only two IVs at 31 the rest set to 20?'' are just ''randomize'' them. But that isn't the point of this league, this place is to reward [both] those, seemingly few, people who have bought the game and spent time in it and/or those who have a hacking device.

But yes, it's become quite easy to get stats like that (mostly 31s), now with HGSS updates and RNG knowledge. So -no- masa, the chances of getting a Pokemon with mostly 31's comes down to just paying attention to numbers for about a couple of hours or so, if that. Once you know your ID number, it's pretty much ensured to get good IV's.

Ah, I had no idea IVs existed. Knew about the EVs, though, just never really cared about them since that's just too much effort for me.

And yeah, I have little to no interest in training all my guys to be OMG SUPER COMPETITIVE RAR and would be doing this casually, just trying to use my type advantages to my... advantage. If I manage to best some gym leaders... awesome! If not, ah well, I'll still have gotten some use out my eeveelutions <3

I agree that there's an enormous difference between raising Pokémon naturally and handpicking every littlest detail about your team.
ENORMOUS.

Training a pokémon team up to go up against gym leaders is a totally different game from crunching stats and metaconsiderations to beat a reigning enemy team type. Just because they are still related to each other in that they're activities within the same game's parameters does not mean they're the same thing.
Different.


I'd totally join this thing, but I still haven't even cleared the gym leaders in the current generation, and also have no wireless at all.