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RE: [Bug] Boardroom Avenger never undizzies - Milo - 07-11-2012 09:33 PM
Continuation of this.
RE: [Rework/Reexamine] Morphing and token creation, statuses and dizzy state - xX Crow Xx - 07-12-2012 03:46 PM
My preferences:
Transforming entities do not dizzy or execute into play: abilities upon transformation. If we want the alteration of the object to not be usable immediately, specify this via either a dizzy cost in the transformation ability or by adding "and dizzy it" in the card that caused the transformation. If an ability needs to happen upon transformation (i.e. Sheena's counters), execute that as a part of the transformation ability rather than hijacking into play triggers.
Transformed entities retain all status effects. If a specific status (say, counters) should not survive the transformation, make it not survive via the transformation ability.
Entities that are created where they previously did not exist are treated exactly as though they came into play from your hand, regardless of the cause of that creation. If it has speed summon normally, it enters the field undizzy, and if it has into play: triggers, those execute as normal. If we want a particular object not to execute its into play triggers if it came into play artificially, we can use Gremlin's method.
Similar topic to discuss: copying. In OGC, I don't think there were any two copy abilities that actually worked the same way. Unfortunately, any uniform "how to copy" protocol I can think of hits a snag with cards that have "into play: gain X counters: type abilities.
RE: [Rework/Reexamine] Morphing and token creation, statuses and dizzy state - Milo - 07-12-2012 04:12 PM
(07-12-2012 03:46 PM)xX Crow Xx Wrote: My preferences:I agree with this.
Transforming entities do not dizzy or execute into play: abilities upon transformation. If we want the alteration of the object to not be usable immediately, specify this via either a dizzy cost in the transformation ability or by adding "and dizzy it" in the card that caused the transformation. If an ability needs to happen upon transformation (i.e. Sheena's counters), execute that as a part of the transformation ability rather than hijacking into play triggers.
Transformed entities retain all status effects. If a specific status (say, counters) should not survive the transformation, make it not survive via the transformation ability.
(07-12-2012 03:46 PM)xX Crow Xx Wrote: Entities that are created where they previously did not exist are treated exactly as though they came into play from your hand, regardless of the cause of that creation. If it has speed summon normally, it enters the field undizzy, and if it has into play: triggers, those execute as normal.I agree with this for tokens.
Do we want merging to work like transformation or like token creation? Flavorwise, merging is more like transformation, but mechanically, it would be difficult to treat it as that.
(07-12-2012 03:46 PM)xX Crow Xx Wrote: If we want a particular object not to execute its into play triggers if it came into play artificially, we can use Gremlin's method.This part I don't like. Currently, played-from-hand Gremlin and token Gremlin are effectively two different cards, with a rules patch to fit both "cards" into one text box.
It's more reasonable on Hallo-weenies! because playing one from hand and receiving ones as tokens go hand-in-hand, rather than involving putting entirely different cards in your deck (Gremlin versus Gremlin Pit).
(07-12-2012 03:46 PM)xX Crow Xx Wrote: Similar topic to discuss: copying. In OGC, I don't think there were any two copy abilities that actually worked the same way. Unfortunately, any uniform "how to copy" protocol I can think of hits a snag with cards that have "into play: gain X counters: type abilities.I would say copied cards do not trigger into play abilities. They gain the same number of counters that are on the card being copied.
So if you play Spray Glue (3 counters when played), use its ability once, and then copy it, each copy will now have 2 counters for a total of 4 more activations (5 counting the one you've already made).
Well, Spray Glue doesn't actually use "into play: gain X counters" wording. So for another example if you play Negazor R (into play: gain 2 counters), wait until your next turn (it will lose 1 counter and undizzy), and then copy it, each copy will now have 1 counters on it. In your next turn, each copy will have 0 counters and be able to attack.
RE: [Rework/Reexamine] Morphing and token creation, statuses and dizzy state - xX Crow Xx - 07-12-2012 07:39 PM
A spell that creates a copy of a card is putting into play an entity that wasn't in play before; if you play Reverse Engineering on a Shadow Core, shouldn't you pay for it as though you were playing a new one? Whereas, if you use Nanoreplicator, there clearly isn't any new object entering play.
But if both actions use the term "copy", that becomes kind of unclear, as they would be executing different commands. Which is kind of the case either way.
RE: [Rework/Reexamine] Morphing and token creation, statuses and dizzy state - Milo - 07-12-2012 07:52 PM
Well, my first thought was you're not repaying Shadow Core's
![[Image: dmana.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/dmana.gif)
1 cost, so why should you repay the into play cost?My second thought, though, was that Reverse Engineering also puts a "copy" in your hand, which clearly does pay the full cost when played, so it makes sense for the into-play copy to also work that way.
I guess we should keyword a distinction between abilities that copy a card's current form, and ones that copy a card's base form (as recognized by Save Point). Then again, Save Point still doesn't re-trigger into-play abilities...