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+--- Thread: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD (/showthread.php?tid=4230)
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - E-mouse - 07-18-2006 02:05 PM
And then there are people whose interest in CMC wax and wane due to being busy with other things. Or getting tired of the inevitable arguments in the balancing forum.
I think the system could use a revamp, but doing so would require a fair bit of work. Despite what Mage said early in the thread, restricting cash-post contribution to outside-of-spam-only may have rather negative effects: It's one thing to have lots more silly posts in a subforum designed for it, but to give people more reason/excuse to make minimum-content posts in other subforums could make it really tough to keep them on topic, let alone accomplish anything.
I got a good night's sleep today. Does it show?
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - sXeAndriex - 07-18-2006 06:15 PM
Oh, that typo where it reads 'silver' on crystal equipment is apparently on boots, armor and helmets.
E-mouse Wrote:I think the system could use a revamp, but doing so would require a fair bit of work. Despite what Mage said early in the thread, restricting cash-post contribution to outside-of-spam-only may have rather negative effects: It's one thing to have lots more silly posts in a subforum designed for it, but to give people more reason/excuse to make minimum-content posts in other subforums could make it really tough to keep them on topic, let alone accomplish anything.So, since with the system as it is now occasionally some people may make superfluous posts in the fourm we should completly remove the fact that the inventory items are a reward for being an active fourmite? Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't someone just post the same way Shaventalz did to get his really high posting number and thus make this system completly useless? I severly doubt we're going to see anyone posting thirty times in the real fourm to get 300 money while following the basic rules of content and context.
I really don't think it will be anywhere near the type of problem you're aluding to and even if it is, shouldn't we wait till people start making 'posts just to post' till we change the system because of it?
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - shaventalz - 07-18-2006 08:15 PM
sXeAndriex Wrote:So, since with the system as it is now occasionally some people may make superfluous posts in the fourm we should completly remove the fact that the inventory items are a reward for being an active fourmite? Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't someone just post the same way Shaventalz did to get his really high posting number and thus make this system completly useless? I severly doubt we're going to see anyone posting thirty times in the real fourm to get 300 money while following the basic rules of content and context.
I really don't think it will be anywhere near the type of problem you're aluding to and even if it is, shouldn't we wait till people start making 'posts just to post' till we change the system because of it?
Wait, what? First you disagree that many off-topic posts would appear outside of Spam, and then you doubt that people would make even 30 posts without going off-topic. What are you trying to say?
If the equipment mod becomes very popular, I can see off-topic posts outside of Spam becoming noticably more frequent. Not near the level inside Spam, mind you, but noticable. Some of the equipment costs 1000 posts outside of Spam. This set of boards has been up for what, a year and a half? How many people have that many non-Spam posts? We could say that some current equips cost about a year worth of posting. With that kind of cost, people will bring Spam outside.
I see a few ways to fix this.
1. Aggressive modding. Delete the offending posts, but more importantly take away the points from that post. Currently, the mods do not have this ability (so far as I know).
2. Minor rewards for posting in Spam. 1 point per post seems like more than it really is. Since this board has opened, I'd barely have had enough points for one of the high-priced items. Given the tendancy of spammers to drop out for lengthy periods, the rewards would be kept in check. Combine this with #1, and possibly stiff penalties for spam outside, and the off-topic madness should stay contained.
3. Reward for being logged in. 100 points/day has been suggested, but that's probably too much. That would be 3 of the high-priced items yearly, versus 1 or 2/3 yearly. My suggestion would be maybe 20 points. You don't really do anything to gain the points, and get what amounts to two free posts per day. That'll give about 7000 per year, and only if they log in regularly. If more equipment is brought out often enough, you would still need to post to get what you want.
4. "Spam money". Basically have a different type of money rewarded for Spam posts. Have the equipment buyable with it either more expensive, or denoted as 'spammy' in some way. People could still buy what they wanted, but people from outside of Spam would still have the status they earned. For those familiar with KoL, this would be like the difference between hardcore and softcore ascensions. Sure, it sounds impressive to say you've got 100 ascensions under your belt - until you find out they're all softcore runs of less than a week.
Personally, I'd perfer a combination of the first three, with #1 being the most expendable, and #2 being the least. This gives regular forumites the rewards, but the biggest rewards and bragging rights go to people that post real content.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Whomper - 07-18-2006 09:49 PM
Blue Canary Wrote:Well then there are people who play CMC but don't post often in the CMC section.* Whomper raises a hand.
You all are making this seem way overcomplicated. Enjoy the system as is - at least for now. Quit trying to "improve" upon it when only a handful of people even know what it is. Spam will be spam will be spam. Reading through this thread alone, I must've seen Shadowhunter confirm himself at least three different times. To me, it seemed spamtacular. To others, this isn't as noticable.
To emphasize my point: spam is in the eye of the beholder. Instead of devising a system to thwart it, let the mods deal with it as they see fit. That's what they're here for, after all.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Flipkat - 07-18-2006 11:00 PM
We could do an honor system where people delete their own spammy posts after getting the money from them.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - sXeAndriex - 07-18-2006 11:49 PM
shaventalz Wrote:Wait, what? First you disagree that many off-topic posts would appear outside of Spam, and then you doubt that people would make even 30 posts without going off-topic. What are you trying to say?Heh, not what it looks like. I realise after reading your comments that my post was misleading. I wasn't saying that I doubt that a thread could go even thirty posts without going off-topic, I was saying that I doubt someone is going to make thirty spam-esc posts in one day.
Hope that made more sense this go, I just typed it up pretty badly the first time.
shaventalz Wrote:I see a few ways to fix this.Probably the only reliable way to do this without excessive work on Webrunners part is this idea. Having Shuryou, Bluestone, ect. with the ability to 'pilfer' money would probably take care of the issue. Course, it adds a ton of potential work for them but hell... I ain't a mod, so what do I care if they have more work :P
1. Aggressive modding. Delete the offending posts, but more importantly take away the points from that post. Currently, the mods do not have this ability (so far as I know).
Flipkat Wrote:We could do an honor system where people delete their own spammy posts after getting the money from them.I think that would make things WORSE, as they'd be getting the same rewards as normal posters but contribute nothing to the fourm.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Moogle1 - 07-19-2006 01:11 AM
There's another way to rack up big points, one that doesn't leave a lot of spam lying around. It's so incredibly abusive, I'm almost afraid to post it.
Okay, it's too good to keep to myself. See, all you have to do is create a new thread, delete it, hit back twice on your browser, and repeat. I just spent a few minutes doing that while I was browsing the forums in another tab. Voila, 150 points.
The thing is, there's not much that can be done about this beyond deducting points for deleting your own posts. That should be an easy hack, but I don't know any specifics about myBB, so it could possibly be really hard. Either way, it's pretty much untraceable while still being a relatively painless way to boost points.
Oh, uh, if you want to deduct the points from me, go ahead... personally, I think the bug report is useful enough that you should give me more.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - E-mouse - 07-19-2006 01:32 AM
sXeAndriex Wrote:So, since with the system as it is now occasionally some people may make superfluous posts in the fourm we should completly remove the fact that the inventory items are a reward for being an active fourmite? Correct me if I'm wrong, but couldn't someone just post the same way Shaventalz did to get his really high posting number and thus make this system completly useless? I severly doubt we're going to see anyone posting thirty times in the real fourm to get 300 money while following the basic rules of content and context.
I really don't think it will be anywhere near the type of problem you're aluding to and even if it is, shouldn't we wait till people start making 'posts just to post' till we change the system because of it?
Emphasis mine.
And as offensive as it seems, Shaven does have a point about 'borderline' posts that Shadow may have been doing - ones that have very little content while remaining in context, or that veer slightly off topic into something that people can then post a lot about later, without expanding on the main/original topic of the thread. The line between 'spam' and 'valid post' can be hazy at times, and may be in entirely different places for some people (I can never pass up a good shot at a joke if it presents itself, but that doesn't contribute to anything but others' enjoyment of the thread, now does it?).
Plus, as Shaven has pointed out, the problem is that there is currently no way for anyone other than an administrator of the forum (in our case, only Webby himself) to edit the money values for any forumer. This means that even if the posts are deleted, the money remains, and there is no real punishment (other than social stigmatisation, which may not be enough deterrance for some) for abusing the system. A few people have already used the 'post-and-delete-the-evidence' method to gain (relatively) large amounts of money. And there could be others I'm not aware of, which simply don't post enough to notice their money totals easily. (A 0-post 'nobody' who finds a time when no one else is on the forum and makes-deletes a 5000-post thread in Everything Else... yeah.)
The system COULD really use some reworking. If making Inventory-stuff-editing is easy to add to Moderator abilities (I'm not sure if myBB supports adding custom mod stuff to Moderator position abilities, or a custom Moderator+ position, rather than assigning a new Administrator), then having mods able to edit cash totals and inventory contents would work. (You need the inventory part because abusers could, obviously, spam-delete just enough to get a super item when no mods are on, then buy it and get off scot free. It could also be entertaining for adding special items for forumites and the like... I'm starting to like this, actually.)
If adding it to Moderator+ doesn't work, I'm actually wondering if I could figure out the code myself and try to work on improving it. Of course, this makes me sound like a power-hungry bastard, but eh...
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Darg - 07-19-2006 02:07 AM
E-mouse Wrote:Of course, this makes me sound like a power-hungry bastard, but eh...We already knew that about you, Mus. It's part of your charm.
Anyway, the post-delete bug does raise some valid concerns; maybe to prevent abuse, self-deletes should be temporarily disabled until the bug can be worked out or around?
Just an idea...
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - shaventalz - 07-19-2006 09:48 AM
What if deleting a post checked what forum its in, similar to the current check of "is this Spam"? If its outside of Spam, delete 10 money from the user's account. If a user is below 0, everyone can tell who's been abusing the system. Or, notify webby if the point total goes below 0 so he can do whatever he wants.
Deleting an entire thread seems to be the harder issue to deal with - do we penalize everyone for someone deleting their thread? I suggest that if deleting posts lowers the money, thread deletion should be locked until we figure out what to do.
E-mouse Wrote:The system COULD really use some reworking. If making Inventory-stuff-editing is easy to add to Moderator abilities (I'm not sure if myBB supports adding custom mod stuff to Moderator position abilities, or a custom Moderator+ position, rather than assigning a new Administrator), then having mods able to edit cash totals and inventory contents would work.Some other boards have extra options on the user profile screen if the viewer is a mod. What if something like that was done? Check if the group of whoever's logged in is "Ultra Moderator 9000-X!!!!!". If so, display an option to change money count for the guy you're viewing. That ought to be quite easy, since you'd have access to the info of the logged-in user.
If adding it to Moderator+ doesn't work, I'm actually wondering if I could figure out the code myself and try to work on improving it. Of course, this makes me sound like a power-hungry bastard, but eh...
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - sqweek - 07-19-2006 11:19 AM
i'd like to second all the recent mentions of how much crap we have in the side bar.
i'm also having trouble coming up with a LESS imaginative way to display equipment (i mean key:value pairs, that even get printed when empty??)
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - *NightWind* - 07-19-2006 01:13 PM
Dargon's idea about locking self deletes is good and so is squeeks's about leaving out key:value pairs where the value is null.
And on the modding of spam threads, maybe if the authour of the thread can manage and delete the spammy posts? It is sort of part of their responsibility and is less stressful for the mods.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Leander - 07-19-2006 06:53 PM
Um, any chance of an option in the control panel to turn off inventory display?
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Shadowhunter - 07-19-2006 06:56 PM
I asked that already, no response. But yeah, that'd be nice.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - azulknight - 07-19-2006 11:09 PM
I think that at least we should remove the word Equipment, as everything has its own category anyway...
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Zemyla - 07-20-2006 07:40 AM
We could also remove the Group and Joined Lines.
And the avatar. And the post time. And the name.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Shadowhunter - 07-20-2006 07:56 AM
I liked it the most on the straight-down list without tags, and that would look less bulky.
And getting rid of the Group and Joined lines would be great- I mean, we're all in the same group.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - shaventalz - 07-20-2006 09:24 AM
~Shadow~ Wrote:And getting rid of the Group and Joined lines would be great- I mean, we're all in the same group.
Except for the mods, but we all know who they are, anyway. Plus there's the pink name.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - Shadowhunter - 07-20-2006 09:32 AM
Yeah. The Group/Joined are just cluttering up that box. Though if it was properly columised, it'd match well with the post/sig length.
RE: Update to 1.1.6 + INVENTORY SHOP MOD - E-mouse - 07-20-2006 09:36 AM
... if you have a small avatar.