+- ADV, AFH, CMC, ETC (http://107.170.157.187:8000/forum)
+-- Forum: Cardmaster Conflict (/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Balance (/forumdisplay.php?fid=31)
+--- Thread: 1mana monsters (/showthread.php?tid=4631)
RE: 1mana monsters - sXeAndriex - 10-31-2006 11:36 PM
Blue_Elite Wrote:Generally you want something that's spell/ability immune to be able to take advantage of those conditions. Immunity on Skyrian seems like a nerf as generally your opponent isn't going to waste spells on it and save it's abilities for just about anything more threatening. I guess you could argue that spell/ability immune Skyrian + Shadowforce Heart would be a good combo.The suggestion was
![[Image: abilitypointer.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/abilitypointer.gif)
![[Image: gmana.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/gmana.gif)
Gains (ability immune) (spell immune) until end of turnI think that explains why I like it.
RE: 1mana monsters - Blue_Elite - 11-01-2006 12:08 AM
I somehow managed to completely miss that it was an ability >_>.
RE: 1mana monsters - masamunemaniac - 11-01-2006 06:37 AM
Gremlin: Yeah, we've all mentioned or agreed to the 5 damage idea a few times already now. It's got multiple consensii. And I don't care if that's not a word.
Mubble: I don't think the ability is close to strong enough to warrant a cost increase to the monster. Maybe up Mubble Woods' cost by
![[Image: lmana.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/lmana.gif)
1, or reduce its sac by 2. If you think there's a real threat, lower Mubble's sac to 1, but I don't think that is necessary.Random Suggestion of randomness: Give it Into Play: Undizzy self. Makes it a half chance/half cost FMV, but keeps the delay on the generated versions.
Skyrian Soldier: I'd like to see a soldier synergy myself >_> But I could go for '
Gains (Ability Immune) and (Spell Immune) until end of turn' 
. Yes, that's right, no activation cost. I wouldn't often be inclined pay to save him from a Foombolt. (Just remember that it's unuseable when dizzied)edit: Whoops. S speed is not for balance, it's for convenience.
RE: 1mana monsters - webrunner - 11-01-2006 09:57 AM
S speed is not for balance, it's for convenience.
RE: 1mana monsters - Exile - 11-01-2006 10:20 AM
You people really need to take a step back and listen to yourselves. You're talking about nerfing Mubble Woods. That alone should say something.
Now, with regards to the 1-mana monsters themselves, I never really saw much point in giving them abilities in the first place, but now that they do, whatever. The three that I have problems with are K-Army Guy, Skeleton, and Skyrian Soldier. Skyrian soldier, as has already been mentioned is fairly weak, so is generally not a threat but combo potential is there (maybe entrenching instead might be flavorful?). Skeleton is also powerful owing to card advantage, but the one turn delay makes rush decks significantly slower, so perhaps a minor nerf at best. K-Army Guy, well I've probably abused it the most out of anyone, and it makes for some nice turn 4 kills, but Kelar towers, Skeletal Archer, Mountain Range, Soulsphere are your friends (Walls and Slime Valleys too, though those are slightly slower) and that's just pre-mechanical chaos.
Anything else doesn't really deserve mention. Anyways, I'm off
RE: 1mana monsters - masamunemaniac - 11-01-2006 10:45 AM
Skeleton is now worth a slow bucket and gives a card (useful for discard/grave/hand synergies etc). Or, it kamikazes for 18 damage and is still worth a slow skull. I'd say give it a sac of
![[Image: dmana.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/dmana.gif)
1 or none. Also, skeletons have synergistic value now, so it's not a flavour type.I think I've already said as much, but yeah, reiteration as only Exile seems concerned at the moment.
RE: 1mana monsters - webrunner - 11-01-2006 11:04 AM
Exile Wrote:Now, with regards to the 1-mana monsters themselves, I never really saw much point in giving them abilities in the first place,
They were the most useless cards in the game, and just upping their stats would make them rush-favorites.
RE: 1mana monsters - Blue_Elite - 11-01-2006 11:20 AM
Mubble: I would have proposed something along those same lines masa except that... we're out of room ;_;
Unless one of the nerfs a gen can make to its tokens is decreased sac value, then decreasing it for Mubble hurts playing the card normally as much as generating it does.
Either we need to rethink the ability, or just accept that Mubble by itself will be an unused card.
Skyrian: I still see temporary spell/ability immunity worthless on a card that can be killed by normal damage so easily; but eh, if people are for it then I am too.
Skeleton: We can balance the change in sac with the new stats. As long as I'm mentioning that, should be go to phases 2 and 3 of the original plan and start discussing the sac/stat changes for the 1 costers that HAVE been accepted?
RE: 1mana monsters - webrunner - 11-01-2006 11:26 AM
I think the stat changes are extremly minor and don't need to be covered as early. Maybe go through the 2 costers first, and then do the 1 and 2 coster stats together (because if you're 'afraid' of getting into 2 coster territory, what happens if later the '2 coster territory' changes when you do the 2 costers?)
RE: 1mana monsters - masamunemaniac - 11-01-2006 11:34 AM
Well... can we kill the flavour text? SHOCK
Normally I wouldn't, but the flavour to Clash/War cards is inherent from their storylines, and asides from the word 'hapless' it's pretty much copied from Kelar Citizen anyway.
Would nerfing the flavour text be acceptable in conjunction with boosting it with a speed summon variant?
And yeah, once we're happy with the one coster's abilities, I'd rather go onto the 2 costers. They should be easier to get through (well probably not, but I'm hoping they will be).
RE: 1mana monsters - Blue_Elite - 11-01-2006 11:34 AM
Point well made web.
On that note I think it'd be best to finish up work on the 1 coster abilities as we only have 1 card with a needed change (Skyrian) and 1 card with a possible change (Mubble) left to do.
EDIT: You and your fast posting skills masa XP.
EDIT EDIT: While I'm at it, how do you do those solid divider lines?
RE: 1mana monsters - masamunemaniac - 11-01-2006 11:50 AM
Well, if the doublepost plugin's working, doupleposting will do it for you.
Other than that, [hr] (forum code) or <hr> (html code) will give a solid divider line, as shown below, twice (one of each hr). I think it stands for horizontal rule, but I could be mistaken, as I can't be bothered checking up.
Blue Mage Tip: You can also just click either quote button to view the code behind any non-textual elements of somebody's post.
Have we got a consensus on K-Army Guy and Skeleton yet?
RE: 1mana monsters - webrunner - 11-01-2006 12:05 PM
doublepost plugin should be disabled.
RE: 1mana monsters - Blue_Elite - 11-01-2006 12:06 PM
1 person agreed with the K-Army guy giving 2 life besides me, and we've been debating SOMETHING for him for a while (web having shot down the "Khrima synergy" idea that was the second most popular) so I think he's accepted.
Skeleton: just make 1 sac so people will still use him. If after the 2 costers balancing they still complain it's too powerful and makes Magic Skull worthless, we can go with 0 sac.
RE: 1mana monsters - masamunemaniac - 11-01-2006 12:19 PM
Okay, agreement on those two is good.
What was your opinion on Skyrian Soldier?
Gain (Spell Immune) and (Ability Immune) until end of turn? Or ? Or either, or neither?
RE: 1mana monsters - Blue_Elite - 11-01-2006 12:29 PM
Whoops read it wrong, I'd agree with free use as it seems pretty pointless unless you sink a lot of cards/mana into Skyrian.
RE: 1mana monsters - webrunner - 11-01-2006 12:38 PM
it's not like using it multiple times in a turn is an issue.
edit: BRAINSTORM:
-> Toggle spell/ability immune
Same as the suggestion but you can also turn it off.
RE: 1mana monsters - Blue_Elite - 11-01-2006 12:44 PM
Would it work like Secret Asteroid Base or just add/remove ability/spell immune on the card (just by question)?
Sounds fine to me. It'd take a Shadowforce Heart just to give Skyrian Fanny's stats (at current 12/12) and then it still falls short of Far'thin with that.
RE: 1mana monsters - masamunemaniac - 11-01-2006 12:45 PM
Oh, genius idea right there!
Permanent Ability and Spell Immunities are both (available as) status effects, it'd just be a case of turning it on (1) or off (0).
Until EOT immunities are also status effects, which can also be toggled.
The status icons would nicely remind you whether shields are up or down too.
RE: 1mana monsters - Exile - 11-01-2006 12:46 PM
webrunner Wrote:Exile Wrote:Now, with regards to the 1-mana monsters themselves, I never really saw much point in giving them abilities in the first place,
They were the most useless cards in the game, and just upping their stats would make them rush-favorites.
I have two responses to that. First as to the uselessness, they were flavorful precisely because they were so useless, and so people could make fun decks based around them if they wanted to. Not every card has to be tournament-worthy. As to the second point, you clearly haven't seen my new deck, or else you wouldn't have made that point.