ADV, AFH, CMC, ETC
Karn vs Shadehawk? - Printable Version

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RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Fighter143 - 03-12-2007 08:00 PM

Shadey would totally own Karn, in RPG battle or in cutscene. In cutscene, its obvious that Shadey has the advantage with guns and his zipgrappler. But in battle heres how it would go:

Shadey is very fast, therefore would probably attack first, and attack more often. Also, due to his high speed, he probably can make Karn miss whenever he attacks. You cant forget his Silver arrow is more than just a gun, it comes with special bullets (which would get convereted to techs or would be in the item slot). Lets have a look:

[Image: block.gif]
Shadey can block blows pretty well, considering Jack's flail isnt as predictable as a sword blade, chances are, Shadey will block Karn's sword. However, Karn's sword isnt any regular steel, probably something more, but Shadey has enough speed for Karn to miss.

[Image: stunshot.jpg]
Stun bullet/shot, that probably would cause paralization

[Image: explosionshot.gif]
Explodsion bullet/shot, probably fire damage, large area damage, probably can go through most armours

[Image: pierceshot.png]
Pierce bullet/shot, clearly ment to deal large damage and get through armor

[Image: omnishot.gif]
And you have some sort of Omnishot, bound to hit anything for atleast one 9999.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - sXeAndriex - 03-12-2007 08:02 PM

Ya know, that was worth it for the images. Good job.

In conclusion, with enough time to prepare Batman would win.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Shadowhunter - 03-12-2007 09:21 PM

But, but Paladin! Karn can HIT STUFF WITH SWORDS.

....lousy, ain't he?

This was also pre-Infinity, which means Karn doesn't have anything too good. So Shadey so owns.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - LtSterling - 03-12-2007 09:34 PM

The only flaw is speed doesn't effect the hit/miss ratio in RPG battle, it only effects how many times you can attack.

[Image: SpeedHit.gif]

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Darg - 03-12-2007 09:35 PM

*Darg does the "Go Shadehawk!" dance

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Yoru - 03-12-2007 09:44 PM

karn vs shadehawk? they would never fight! they are lovers you see...the following drawing proves this

[Image: Karn.jpg]

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Shadowhunter - 03-12-2007 09:46 PM

Dangit Masa, quit hacking Yoru! >_>

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Fighter143 - 03-12-2007 10:39 PM

Shuryou Gospel Wrote:The only flaw is speed doesn't effect the hit/miss ratio in RPG battle, it only effects how many times you can attack.

Im pretty sure Karn isn't going to be dodging the omni shot or the explosion shot very easily, since he is a warrior, and warriors arent known for their speed. I'd find the comic, but its late and im currently lazy, heh.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - LtSterling - 03-12-2007 10:49 PM

Your still saying speed affects hit/miss ratios. It doesn't matter what Karn's speed is, he can still have a high dodge rate even with a low speed.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Milo - 03-12-2007 11:43 PM

Haste doesn't change your speed attribute. It a status effect that makes you get twice as many turns, which is a far stronger effect than typical stat boosting ever really gives you.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - masamunemaniac - 03-13-2007 06:19 AM

Natural speed can affect your hit% and evd%, even if Haste or Speed Crystals can't.

[Image: adventurers20040113a.gif]

(ie being a fast character will determine your high spd, hit% and evd% stats. increasing one stat will not increase the other two though.)

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - E-mouse - 03-13-2007 02:23 PM

And as the multiple "final battles" showed, Karn is slow as all hell.

Still, I doubt Shadehawk would dodge EVERYTHING. He would definitely dodge an annoying amount (assuming techs can miss and/or Karn relies significantly on regular attacks), but that alone wouldn't make the fight.

Shadehawk being faster and having a better variety of techniques, on the other hand, probably would make the difference. In a one-on-one fight, Shadehawk would have the upper hand using any semblence of strategy (lol, paralize bullets) would generally come out on top.

Shadehawk vs. an entire ADV! party would be a tougher call, though. I'm not sure Shade could stand up to that much without some luck, relatively unlimited special bullets, and probably abuse of the terrain in some fashion (as Shade seems to like doing).

As always, it's pretty situational.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Fighter143 - 03-13-2007 04:03 PM

Actually, Shadey probably has the edge still against a hold ADV party.

Not seeing the "Data" section for the Silver Arrow, I missed a bunch of bullets

Quote:Standard Bullet - this is the ammunition of choice. Easy, cheap, and plentiful - a real classic.
Tracer Bullet - attaches to the target allowing me to track the perp through the city.
Explosive - A medium-yield explosive. It basically turns the Silver Arrow into a grenade launcher.
Gas - much like the explosive rounds, only it releases some sort of gas. Various types available
Glue - A glue-like substance explodes at the point of impact, restricting movement
Tranq - Fires a tranq needle
Capture Net - a net pops out and captures the target
Flamethrower - Instead of firing, the capsule releases gas and ignites it.
Energy Rifle - Fires small energy pulses
Electric - fires an incapacitiating energy blast.
Electro-Ballistic - fires a bullet which explodes in an electrical shock on impact.
Sonic - Fires a sonic shockwave.
Capture (Non-Net) - Wraps the target in a difficult-to-escape rope-like device

Now to change them into RPG battle stuff

Standard Bullet - Just a regular attack

Tracer Bullet - Obviously, a 100% chance hit

Explosive - Already done, but I felt that the picture before did not demonstrate the true power of the bullet. So.....:
[Image: kersplode.jpg]

Gas - Most likely able to cause status effects, but little to no damage

Glue - Probably "Slow" like.

Tranq - Causes sleep.

Capture Net - Imobalizes a enemy for some time.

[Image: capturenet.gif]

Flamethrower - Probably heavy fire damage to 1 target.
[Image: Flamethrower.jpg]

Energy Rifle - Thunder damage, may immobalize mechanical enemies (like plasma gun in Chrono Trigger).

Electric -Already covered

Electro-Ballistic - Electric damage to all enemies. Chance of Paralizing.

Sonic - Similar to "Silence".

Capture (Non-Net) - Immobalizes a target for longer than Net.


So to keep short, Shadey has a massive amount of techs that could demolish a small army.

Simply Capture net or Capture (Non-net) the quicker units (glue at a later time), Sonic Ardam and Lumi, Then electrical/tranq the tougher units like Karn. Drecker and Karashi probably could get a few blows off him and dodge some, but they won't be dodging the tracer bullets and theifs and ninjas aren't known for the defense or high HP. Chookie and Gildward both die. Telsa obviously has nice guns, but they cant compare to Shadey's dual action handcannon. He probably would take a beating at first, but if takes too much damage, he probably would go into overdrive which is a Super-Haste/Speed mode:
[Image: speed.jpg]

Allowing him to take out weaker units (mages, clerics) that can heal with the flamethrower then followed by the explosive round very quickly. He then can wreck havoc among the others with his massive arsenal of other bullets.

It looks like Shadey needs a nerf.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - E-mouse - 03-13-2007 07:56 PM

Drecker or Karashi and a healthy supply of status remover items would make that plan tough, though. Not to mention if Lumi or Ardam revive those two after Shadehawk whittles them down with a few Tracers. Plus, a Speed Break or Slow would take away Shadehawk's main advantage.

You can't assume only one side would fight smart, dear. Unless it was just something like Karn, Chookie, and Lumi.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - shaventalz - 03-13-2007 08:29 PM

That's easy enough to take care of, though - just have Chookie explode, hurting all enemies in the battle for 3x his current HP.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Fighter143 - 03-13-2007 08:59 PM

The mages probably won't stand up against Shadehawk very long. Mages arent very, low HP, and Def. They're basicly the heavy artillery. Lumi is a white mage, which usually has more Def, but still won't stand up to a few heavy attacks very long. Drecker and Karashi rely more on dodging than standing and just taking blows. So there wouldn't be much widdling down needed to do. And once Shadehawk is in overdrive, its going to be a mess trying to hit him, and mages that could hit him with magic are first to die because of low defensive stats.

Not that arguing about this makes any sense, since it will probably never happen, but i'd say the odds are tipped more toward Shadehawk's side if such a fight were to ever occur.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - masamunemaniac - 03-13-2007 09:10 PM

Yeah, such matchups are completely silly to try and imagine what would happen. There's no way they'd ever meet up in any case.

Right?

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RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - Fighter143 - 03-13-2007 09:37 PM

I dont think CMC really accuratly show what would happen in such incidents acurately.

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RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - *NightWind* - 03-13-2007 09:43 PM

If this was Shadehawk's world, I say he can just somersault back and cut the cables that are supporting that beam.

But since we're talking about ADV-style-battles, and how likely Karn and co will win... I say Spybot is all that's needed. He's got a really good cannon shot and another one which in turns into a fluffly pom-pom. I wanted to think of better words, but I'm half-dead, random and incomprehensible.

And you could always undimension Shadehawk. Which could send him back to AFH.

RE: Karn vs Shadehawk? - E-mouse - 03-13-2007 10:19 PM

I think that Undimension suggestion is the best one yet.