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+--- Thread: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell (/showthread.php?tid=6510)
Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - E-mouse - 12-25-2007 09:38 PM
The main problem here is how similar the cards are. For all practical purposes, 4 lifepoints and an ability speed (both in Ardam's favor) separate the two in usage. When this was discussed before, webrunner said that he was willing to change one or the other to help differentiate the two:
webrunner, on IRC Wrote:[17:10:54] <masa> War Healer Ardam and Howard are virtually identical - same cost, ability and attack, different life and speed
[17:11:23] <masa> proposed boosts to Howard would probably put him closer
[17:11:43] <webrunner> we dont really need two cards that are almost completely the same
[17:12:00] <E-mouse> So how should we make them different?
[17:12:39] <webrunner> i'll consent to a major concept change on one of the cards, just because we're not 'losing' the 3L unique hero healer
The question is, what? Most here know about Ardam, but changing his 3-mana version met with apathy since it was basically "retreading old ground" and there wasn't much to give him that hasn't been basically done on another of his versions, whereas his healing spells haven't appeared anywhere else.
On the other hand, Andriex looked up Howard's appearances in RPGWW to check on his abilities and found:
- Healer (Also revived Dragobo once)
- Summoner (Gigantic Mubble only one shown)
- Laughably pathetic melee fighter
- Also used the fantastic ability to Run Away with Dragobo during his first appearance, though I don't have a link handy.
Ideas that have been shot down: DO NOT recommend unless you want to be laughed at:
- Reviving Dragobo specifically (uncodable)
- Big Mubble summon (requires a new card)
- Synergy boost to Dragobo when in play (Dragobo is already an excellent 2-mana beatstick)
- Mubble synergy (needless, boosts Jack a bit much)
Other, valid ideas with some support either from the previous thread that met some support or that I'm pulling out of my ass based on the abilities above:
- Synergy boost to Howard when Dragobo is in play
- High-cost-for-its-use and/or conditional imitation of Life (possible conditions: high cost [8
![[Image: lmana.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/lmana.gif)
-ish?], low mana-cost cap [3 total?], once-only, Heroes only, mono-Light creatures only...)- Bouncing your creatures (Dragobo-only was suggested but probably too weak)
- Summoning Dragobo when damaged or defending (ala VCH Wrench)
- Bumping cost/stats to 5-mana levels (I don't like it, though it could work for Ardam instead, even if there's a 5-mana version of him already).
What say you, balance monkeys?
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Bubbleman - 12-25-2007 09:50 PM
I like the high costing imitation Life option. Something like "pay mana equal to 1.5 times target light hero's total mana cost and revive that monster" at
speed in place of his current ability seems good to me.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - shwqa - 12-25-2007 09:51 PM
I would like a poor summoning card from Howard. Maybe 3
(that might be too low) cost at he can any of the summon with 50 attack or less
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Serith - 12-25-2007 09:51 PM
�ルノ Wrote:- High-cost-for-its-use and/or conditional imitation of Life (possible conditions: high cost [8
I like this.
I suggest hero only, cost is 3 + Target's manacost in light (like Life without the /2).
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - LtSterling - 12-25-2007 09:53 PM
- Laughably pathetic melee fighter comic
because that made me laugh
![[Image: abilitypointer.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/abilitypointer.gif)
![[Image: abilitydizzy.gif]](http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y291/masamunemaniac/signature/abilitydizzy.gif)
target monsterwith 5% or less of its
default lifepoints is
destroyed.  "I dealt the
crushing final blow!"
But in reality, I might go for the once use life ability.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Santa Squid - 12-25-2007 09:58 PM
I'm with Serith, though i think they should be brought into play as tokens, like Mindleaf, to prevent immortality.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Exile - 12-25-2007 10:02 PM
Well as far as a weak assisting melee character goes, how about weakening its stats slightly and giving it the ability to dizzy and add its stats to a different creature as a temporary boost until end of turn? Say it's 15/17 or something like that, giving another monster +15/+17 until end of turn. It's reusable, but fragile, and doesn't come as a surprise.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - E-mouse - 12-26-2007 12:48 AM
I'm... not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, Exile, but given your record I'm inclined to believe you are. Also, that blows Melrak Motivator out of the water, but I suppose the stats are worse.
I'm glad the reusable life idea has support, since I really liked that one the most. Here's a few versions that were brought up/I thought up and might work:
1
5 Put target hero in your graveyard with total cost 4 or less into play under your control. 2
8 Howard loses this ability: Target hero in your graveyard is put into play under your control. 3
3 Lose equal to play cost of target hero in graveyard: put it into play under your control. I probably got the wording wrong in there, but the idea gets across. (Yes, the second and third are from the previous thread and Serith, respectively.)
1 I made up, with the cost restriction mostly to limit ability-sac usage, even if I'm not sure there's much that can be abused that way. Ah, snipers. Yeah, that might be a bit much without token status.
2 About the same total cost as playing an Elliot directly, one time only, requires you to get him in play and stay alive plus discard or kill off Elliot beforehand... didn't sound too bad to me, but there may be holes in the argument.
3 Reuse and indirect undizzy are about worth the extra 3 cost, I believe.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Blue_Elite - 12-26-2007 12:58 AM
Just remember to consider Lumi when deciding on one of these:
I think she's going to get buffed to 6
cost and 3 ability cost (if not some variant of that such as 7/2, 5/3, etc.).
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Bubbleman - 12-26-2007 01:23 AM
Out of those, option three seems like the most well-rounded and all around useful one. Though it might make him a bit too similar to Life.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - aguydude - 12-26-2007 01:34 AM
Hmm, run away ability...
Howard neither takes nor deals combat damage until end of turn (can code this as 0 atk, DLG: 0%).Well, it can cancel attacks and make howard incredibly survivable, but all the player has to do is attack directly. One cannot both defend and use the ability.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Serith - 12-26-2007 01:44 AM
Howard would be pretty useless with that ability, to be honest.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - E-mouse - 12-26-2007 01:54 AM
Agreed, and I think bouncing is a better mechanic to use if the run away thing is used - the other Mubbles bounce for their ability after all. The question is what else should be done about it; Gildward's hide is much the same thing and he's already a hero anyway, Howard's a bit too frail for it to be used as a faux heal via bounce+replay, and it's rare for bouncing to be directly useful.
If we go that way I'd prefer for him to be a reusable Lucky Save on a targeted other creature, except slower and coming into play dizzy and all that stuff. I'm thinking D speed and with an additional 1-2
cost, and bouncing as well.Still, I think the faux life is more interesting, and causes less double-bouncing coding issues.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Gary Oak - 12-26-2007 02:03 AM
Synergy with Dragobo.
I don't know or care what, but it needs to be done.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Blue_Elite - 12-26-2007 02:09 AM
If Dragobo is in play: Howard and Dragobo become as useless as Plum and Number 347.
It'd be fun, but I really think we have enough of those "synergize with one specific card" monsters and that aside from Plum/347, the Dragobo Nappers fill the niche of "cheap monsters that synergize with 1 or 2 specific cards".
I could see Aguydude's idea on a 1-coster, but not on Howard.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - E-mouse - 12-26-2007 02:09 AM
Why?
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Blue_Elite - 12-26-2007 02:25 AM
Why for which? That we don't need more 1-card synergy monsters or that "doesn't take or deal damage for a turn" wouldn't work well with Howard?
With the synergy, we already have complaints against Plum/347 that haven't been addressed. Simply in my opinion, doing a direct synergy is the wrong way to go unless you want to make it extremely powered like "If Dragobo is in play:
Put target Hero in the graveyard into play". Again personally, I'd rather Howard have a somewhat weak stand-alone ability than a really good one that depends on having 1 specific card that dies at the drop of a hat.Aguydude's ability is, as pointed out, not very useful. It maybe has some advantages with synergy cards (imagine Acolytes that you can keep alive while you power them up with Lucinda/Wordbringer, or Skyrian Soldiers you can keep in play for the K-Army Guy synergy ability), but independently is rather worthless. It really sounds perfect for a 1-coster card ability: rarely useful but good for comboing.
EDIT for below: Ah, well my points probably needed supporting details anyway.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - E-mouse - 12-26-2007 02:31 AM
Mostly asking Noodle. Damn your ninja posting.
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - sXeAndriex - 12-26-2007 02:48 AM
E-Mouse's #3 suggestion is my favorite of the "life-esc" options, but I definitely prefer the Dragobo synergy concept. It's just that... they're a very unique and interesting tag-team comic wise, and I like the idea of carrying that over into CMC. While I'll think about other options tomorrow or something, why not make Howard's "life" ability a bit stronger but only usable when you control Dragobo? Best of both worlds.
Blue, your Plum and 347 idea really just doesn't hit the mark. Why? Because even individually, they're not good cards. "Partner" cards aren't the problem, it's just your example. If when Detestai was out, Larry and Earl received +5/+0 then they would be fine. Why? Because they're not bad cards (in the right decks) already. This just gives you a bonus for having them all out at once. Partner cards should be playable already (like Dragobo), but better when you happen to fulfill extra requirements as those requirements are fragile (keeping both alive) and more of a "cream" than a "word like meat but doesn't destroy my desert analogy".
RE: Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell - Bubbleman - 12-26-2007 02:54 AM
For #3, I wouldn't mind if it costed 4
to begin with and then decreased to 1 when Dragobo is in play. It gives him Dragobo synergies without making Dragobo an essential part of any good deck that has Howard in it.