Balance Thread
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10-09-2006, 04:09 PM (This post was last modified: 10-15-2006 02:12 AM by Tamdrik.)
Post: #101
D/G Massive Balance List
PR-66 Skitter
Seems balanced to me.

SP-39 Arachnid
I'd like it better if the two abilities were decoupled, i.e. always have the dizzying effect, but the ToD only works when allying condition met.  Right now it's pretty pathetic until you get a ton of allies.  <strike>Wait, did the cost go up to 2/2?  Ok, yeah, very useless.</strike>
Suggestion: Block dizzy always, Allying 6: ToD 75%, Cost [Image: dmana.gif]2[Image: gmana.gif]1
(EDIT: Sort of fixed.  Still underpowered without any sort of non-allying-related ability.  1 attack?)

GB-X Geurillabot
<strike>Interesting card, but methinks maybe a bit too expensive.  Often a player will simply attack directly (assuming he's not attacking the mysterious face-down card), in which case any creature can block it.  Given that he has Phantom Galgarion stats, minor-ish ability, I'd probably say 3/3 cost, but given how hard it is to get rid of Guerillas in real life, instead I'll suggest something slightly more creative.
Suggestion: Second Life: [Image: dmana.gif][Image: gmana.gif], change spelling of "Geurillabot" to "Guerillabot"</strike>
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Mad Tinkerer
Seems to be of marginal real value, but he serves a somewhat similar role as the Melrak Cultist, and is priced/statted accordingly, so no proposed change.
(EDIT: Not sure this is particularly useful anymore with the latest nerf.  Given that he dizzies, I doubt he was broken before.)

Scrap Heap
<strike>Still a bit too strong.  Allying 2 is fairly easy to set up, though it limits his use in straight Angelic Warrior beatdown somewhat.</strike>
Suggestion: 40/43, Allying: X, gains +2X attack (if this is possible)
Alternative: 38/43, Allying 2 [+10 attack]
Masa: 40/43, Allying 1 [+7 attack]
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Deadly Appliance
<strike>Sac bomb.  I figure that the "1 Power to Attack" drawback is probably worth something like +20% to stats, which would put him at ~40/29 normally, which seems about right for a 2/2 creature.  But that's not factoring in his massive sac gain, which is probably over the top.</strike>
Suggestion: Change sac to [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]3
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Killbot
I know there are a lot of robots in MC, but still, insta-killing any non-robot seems pretty harsh at first glance.  That said, he costs about as much as a WG, and is basically walking creature D with all the benefits and drawbacks associated with being tied to a weakish creature.  I'd leave it alone for now.

Rust Dragon
Need to play with it some more to get a good feel for it.  My initial impression of it seems like it's fairly balanced, though he's kind of a shock troop, with that brutal maintenance requirement.  Comparable to Giant Snowman.

SKRAP-4
<strike>Pretty weak.  I don't see why this should cost any more than a skelebird.  There just aren't enough robots in the CMC universe to justify it.</strike>
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]3, sac [Image: dmana.gif]4[Image: gmana.gif]4
(EDIT: Fixed, though still very situational.  Though Dark War Spybot... hmm...)

Spore Flower
I kind of like this one.  If you can protect it, it can push quite a bit of steady annoyance damage in an ideal situation.  Not particularly durable, though its cost is low enough to overlook that somewhat.  Masa suggests "cannot attack", and I can get behind that.
Suggestion: Cannot attack.
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Avrillian Fiend
Not bad since he was boosted.  The G damage: 50% is pretty pointless, but ignoring that, it seems about right.

Invisible Horror from Beyond the Stars
<strike>Wow, this one's bad, and I'm not the only one who has noticed.  Just take a look at the CK-66 Ninjitsu.  Even if we assume that needs to be a couple mana more expensive, the Invisible Horror is just way, way overpriced.
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]6[Image: gmana.gif]5</strike>
(EDIT: Fixed!  Could be pretty fun now, though perhaps still a bit pricey.)

Slimeborg
Can get silly in test matches and spare change games, but in normal play, I suspect it's a bit underpowered.  My gut reaction is to start him at 30/45 stats, since that gives him a nice stat progression relative to cost, but in the spirit of conservatism...
Suggestion: 20/45 base stats

Orbital Cannon
This one's tough to balance because it's so unique.  Basically turns any undizzier into a VOIP!  That's pretty scary, and I imagine it could be abused in a well-designed deck pretty readily.
<strike>Suggestion: (Spell immune)</strike>
(EDIT) Suggestion: Activation cost: [Image: dmana.gif]2[Image: gmana.gif]2

Mistress Milari
I could see some havoc wrought with a Gremlin Pit and some light/gray beatsticks.  That said, I think I'd just as soon use Rembrandt for the convenience factor.  No suggested change.

Dethstrik Talon
Seems slightly underpowered.  Not enough to lower the cost, but it's basically a strong 2-mana creature with a couple of fairly minor abilities.  Invisible attack on a non-entrenching 15 life creature just isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Suggestion: 35/15

Dethstrik Cruiser
Sooo... it's really good at hiding your mana.  Not that special, certainly not worth a ~<strike>2</strike> 1 mana premium over stats.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]3, sac [Image: dmana.gif]4[Image: gmana.gif]4
<strike>(EDIT: Fixed, sort of.  Still of questionable utility.)</strike>
(EDIT: Fixed!  Now with entrenching goodness.)

Dethstrik Salvager
<strike>I wish this would get fixed so I could test it, but</strike> this looks dangerous.  It's fairly expensive, but it's also a pretty good bet to kill off at least one creature and give you a bit of card advantage to boot.  If you can protect it with a dizzier effect and a sniper effect, you've pretty much locked things up.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]3 activation cost
(EDIT: Fi- ... well, changed a little, at least.)

Dethstrik Eliminator
Interesting... built in Gauntlet of Shielding.  Another oddball that's hard to find comparables for.  The facedown-ness potentially provides some measure of protection during its vulnerable first turn in play, to give you a chance to fire up the shields.  Then it becomes a pretty nice wall, or it can take out a couple of small-to-mid-size creatures (one by attacking, and one attacking it in retaliation).  It's probably priced about right, if you think of it as a massive wall with a couple of chinks in the armor and the potential to attack if conditions are right.

Dethstrik Suicider
Fun card.  Packs a wallop if your opponent doesn't send an exploratory gloop or keep any kind of sniping ability in reserve.  It's drawback relative to the other mammoth-attack creatures is that if your opponent is defenseless, well, you still only get one shot.  And it's susceptible to the aforementioned pathetic damage.  All in all, I'd rather use this than a Skeletal Abomination or Shadow Pudding, though that isn't saying a lot.

Dethstrik Eradicator
Can get ugly if you actually have 4 power, but that's a pretty lofty prerequisite, since you can't get it with one card.  But it's not overwhelmingly expensive... I imagine it's probably okay as-is, but I'd like to test it more.

Blank Clone
Yet another unique card.  Robot Duplicate at least semi-approximates it, and I think it's probably a better card, being more versatile, but without the ability-copying.  If there aren't any large creatures out, the Duplicate itself is fairly beefy.  And the Clone costs an awful lot... it feels too high.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]5[Image: gmana.gif]5
<strike>(EDIT: If it was overpriced before, it's useless now.  Still has issues with uniques that need sorting.)</strike>
(EDIT: With the "deterioration" and block-dizzy fixes for unique monster issues, I think a cost decrease to 4/4 is in order.)

Minefield
Fun card.  One possible issue is that you can use it to deal 30 damage to a set of attackers, then sac it for <strike>net mana gain</strike> no mana loss.  Another potential issue is Hyperspace abuse.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]1[Image: gmana.gif]1 sac
(EDIT: Tweaked a little.)

Shadow Clockwork
See Diamond Clockwork (earlier post)
(EDIT: Fixed, sort of.  Time will tell if it's enough.)

Fossil Engine
While losing random cards makes me hesitant to use it, there's nothing wrong with that.  No suggested change.
(EDIT: Tweaked a bit.)

Interference Generator
May have gone slightly too far with the 3-counter implementation, but rather than drop it to two, I think we should just lower the cost a bit.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]3 cost, [Image: dmana.gif]4[Image: gmana.gif]4 sac
(EDIT: Also, change wording to ">=3" instead of ">=1")

High Energy Nebula
This seems about right.  The effect on the game isn't as major as it might seem at first glance, so the fact that it takes an effect slot is enough to offset the cheap cost.  No suggested change.

Replibot Hive
Potentially very broken when used with the correct stall cards.  <strike>The exponential growth of the Replibots is problematic.</strike>  (EDIT: Fixed: Replibot ability dizzies all Replibots)
<strike>Suggestion: Comes into play dizzy, Replibots' ability block-dizzies</strike>

Gunner Turret
Interesting and fun card.  While you can get some serious rapid fire going with the correct setup, the fact that it's only 9 damage helps.  No suggested change.

Chroniton Gun
<strike>This seems useful enough that it doesn't need the extra sac mana.
Suggestion: Reduce sac to [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]5</strike>
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Secret Asteroid Base
<strike>I suppose it's useful for the mega-ships like the Zeus.  Generally, I'm kind of underwhelmed, though.  Probably fine.</strike>
(EDIT: After hearing that it's reusable, I'm somewhat more wary that it is abusable.)

Asterite Ore / Shadowide Ore
Still need to experiment with the Allying 3 edition.  Probably acceptable.

Shadow Core / Fission Core
These need help.
Suggestion: 30% chance: Discard a card/50% chance: Opponent gains [Image: dmana.gif][Image: lmana.gif][Image: gmana.gif]
(EDIT: Fission Core has been tweaked to be somewhat less lousy.)

Overload
Meh.  Being limited to generators is a pretty major drawback, especially outside of the MC sandbox.
Suggestion 1: Remove the "owner gains sacrifice mana"
Suggestion 2: Reduce cost to [Image: dmana.gif]2[Image: gmana.gif]
Suggestion Omega: Change spelling of "it's" to "its"
(EDIT: Fixed! {option 2}  Though, oddly, the spelling error wasn't fixed.)

Dissolving Acid
Very useful card, and probably fairly costed, but it's a little better than Alien Lawyers and its ilk, IMO.  But it's those other cards that should probably cost one mana less.

Stripmine
See Shade Filter.  No change suggested.

Operational Virus
Very narrow utility.  If you lard your deck with robots to maximize damage, then you're damaging your own monsters.  If you don't, you're relying on your opponent to play a robot deck.  <strike>I think it could stand to be cheaper.</strike>
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]2 cost
(EDIT: Fixed!)

It's Alive!
Fun concept.  Some of the resulting creatures are pretty pathetic, but in a Bakuga deck with exotic effects, this could be quite interesting.  <strike>That said, in general play, it should at least outrun the most common effect D to be useful.</strike>
Suggestion: Speed B
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Overheard Information
Pretty useful if you have a "dump your hand" rush deck.  Whether we want to encourage that or not might be the question, but this seems pretty balanced.

Junkyard
Haven't used it yet, but it strikes me as *too* useful.  You're filling your hand with cards you've used so far?  BTW, I don't know if it means you also scavenge from your opponent's graveyard, which would diminish the utility somewhat.  Still, you can get some serious late-game card advantage.
Suggestion: Raise cost to [Image: dmana.gif]5[Image: gmana.gif]4
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Data Hack
Since the cost was changed, this seems pretty balanced.  It's a nasty effect, but it costs quite a bit, too, now.

Scavenge
Meh.  <strike>Frankly, I think this could still be cheaper.</strike>  You're not gaining card advantage, and you're hoping that your opponent has something useful that you can cast.  On the bright side, if you've been alert in 'counting cards' so to speak, you may have a pretty good idea of what you're getting.
Suggestion: Zero cost
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Reclaimation
My first impulse was "wow, that's some potent destruction".  Then I considered that most of the time, this will net your opponent a large mana windfall that he wouldn't have if you'd used Fire the Main Cannon.  I think it's probably actually balanced now, but I could see how others might argue otherwise.
Suggestion: Fix spelling to Reclamation
(EDIT: Fixed, cost bumped)

Arms Locker
After the cost reduction, this is probably fair.

Electrical Spike
I need to see this in action.  <strike>I get the impression it's supposed to stop generators and other passive abilities, too.  By "next sacrifice phase", is that your next phase, or whosever comes next?</strike>  Won't attempt to comment until I <strike>understand this better</strike> examine this more closely.

The Dark Quadrant
Wow.  This is one potent location.  It probably makes creatureless decks generally viable.  <strike>Might deserve a modest cost hike, as it is probably the most brutal location in existence</strike>
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]6[Image: gmana.gif]4
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Arm Cannon
The problem is, if you have a creature with (large) attack, you usually would prefer to actually, well, attack with it.  I can see some utility with the Abomination/Suicider class of monster<strike>, but I still think it's a bit overpriced</strike>.
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]3
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Blood Syphon
Pretty expensive for what it does.  Attaching it to a Suicider represents a fairly realistic good-case scenario, and it's thrice as effective as Gift of Life (which itself should probably cost [Image: lmana.gif]3), for over twice the cost.  But it's also much more easily foiled than a GoL, potentially netting you zero.
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]4[Image: gmana.gif]3
(EDIT: Fixed, though I still think it could probably be cheaper without overpowering it.)

Space Leech
This doesn't exactly seem light-years better than Foombolt, given how slow it is.  25 damage was probably overkill, but this could use a bit of a bump.  
Suggestion: 19 damage
(EDIT: Fixed!)

Gravity Pack
See Plasma Pack (earlier post).  <strike>By the way, did anyone notice that there are two of these that generate light mana, and none that generate gray?  Is that intentional?</strike>
(EDIT: Well, the missing gray version issue was fixed.)

Instability
Too expensive for my taste.  Figure it works out to an average case equivalent of simply adding +45 attack to a monster.  That's probably worth 6 mana, and also probably a generous comparison.  Then you pay <strike>&nbsp;4 </strike> 3 dark mana on top of that for the privilege of potentially discarding a card?  Note that you can't just keep your monster safe while he happily builds to become the Incredible Hulk, since you're basically forced to attack with it, unless you do something like combo with Dominic.
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]3[Image: gmana.gif]4
(EDIT: Improved.)
(EDIT: Improved a bit more.  Almost there. :))

Shadowforce Heart
Pretty hefty boost, but the maintenance is definitely non-trivial.  On one hand, it's almost as expensive as a Twisted Paladin.  On the other, it turns your Melrak Follower into a Twisted Paladin, albeit with an upkeep cost.  Probably reasonable as-is.
Suggestion: Fix spelling of "maintainance" to "maintenance"
(EDIT: Fixed!)

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10-09-2006, 06:36 PM
Post: #102
RE: Balance Thread
Only have time to comment on 1 card:
Tamdrik Wrote:Orbital Cannon
This one's tough to balance because it's so unique. Basically turns any undizzier into a VOIP! That's pretty scary, and I imagine it could be abused in a well-designed deck pretty readily.
Suggestion: (Spell immune)
You do realize that without undizziers this card is basically useless right? You have to get out ability monsters that undizzy and then keep those alive. If your going to make the cannon spell immune, make the ability double-dizzy, have a cost for use, and drop the life some so that it's more killable (better having to keep alive 1 monster than 2, the cannon and the undizzier creature).
I guess if Orbital Cannon was facedown it'd be a little more fair with spell immune.
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10-09-2006, 06:39 PM (This post was last modified: 10-09-2006 06:58 PM by webrunner.)
Post: #103
RE: Balance Thread
The whole POINT of Orbital Cannon is that you have to feed it undizziers.

Edit:

Tamdrik Wrote:Dethstrik Salvager
I wish this would get fixed so I could test it, but this looks dangerous. It's fairly expensive, but it's also a pretty good bet to kill off at least one creature and give you a bit of card advantage to boot. If you can protect it with a dizzier effect and a sniper effect, you've pretty much locked things up.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]3 activation cost
It is fixed.
Tamdrik Wrote:Blank Clone
Yet another unique card. Robot Duplicate at least semi-approximates it, and I think it's probably a better card, being more versatile, but without the ability-copying. If there aren't any large creatures out, the Duplicate itself is fairly beefy. And the Clone costs an awful lot... it feels too high.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]5[Image: gmana.gif]5
Remember, it can copy uniques..
Tamdrik Wrote:Replibot Hive
Potentially very broken when used with the correct stall cards. The exponential growth of the Replibots is problematic.
Suggestion: Comes into play dizzy, Replibots' ability block-dizzies
I have the replibot ability now dizzying all replibots.
Tamdrik Wrote:Overload
Meh. Being limited to generators is a pretty major drawback, especially outside of the MC sandbox.
Suggestion 1: Remove the "owner gains sacrifice mana"
Suggestion 2: Reduce cost to [Image: dmana.gif]2[Image: gmana.gif]
Suggestion Omega: Change spelling of "it's" to "its"
Becuase there's no generators in any other set? I'm not sure how the 'mc sandbox' has anything to do with it (excepting maybe that they generally cost less?)
Tamdrik Wrote:It's Alive!
Fun concept. Some of the resulting creatures are pretty pathetic, but in a Bakuga deck with exotic effects, this could be quite interesting. That said, in general play, it should at least outrun the most common effect D to be useful.
Suggestion: Speed B
Next update will have the static-ish multipliers go from .75 to 1.25 instead of 0 to 1.5 (which should be a net gain)
Tamdrik Wrote:Electrical Spike
I need to see this in action. I get the impression it's supposed to stop generators and other passive abilities, too. By "next sacrifice phase", is that your next phase, or whosever comes next? Won't attempt to comment until I understand this better.

It stops anything the effect can do until next sacrifice phase. That would either be yours or your opponents depending on when you cancel it.

It's basically 'until end of turn' except it also includes when the generators generate.

Incidentally it should also stop fleeting and maintanance costs.
Tamdrik Wrote:Blood Syphon
Pretty expensive for what it does. Attaching it to a Suicider represents a fairly realistic good-case scenario, and it's thrice as effective as Gift of Life (which itself should probably cost [Image: lmana.gif]3), for over twice the cost. But it's also much more easily foiled than a GoL, potentially netting you zero.
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]4[Image: gmana.gif]3
Use it on something with Invisible Attack
Tamdrik Wrote:Gravity Pack
See Plasma Pack (earlier post). By the way, did anyone notice that there are two of these that generate light mana, and none that generate gray? Is that intentional?
I'll have to look into that.

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10-09-2006, 10:10 PM
Post: #104
RE:  Balance Thread
webrunner Wrote:The whole POINT of Orbital Cannon is that you have to feed it undizziers.
Ok, then the other route is to give it an activation cost.  Undizziers are cheap, and Orbital Cannon isn't particularly expensive.  I figured with spell immune, you could still undizzy it, but it would be less straightforward (i.e. ability undizziers, Selection Committee, Scanning Field, etc.)

webrunner Wrote:
Tamdrik Wrote:Blank Clone
Yet another unique card.  Robot Duplicate at least semi-approximates it, and I think it's probably a better card, being more versatile, but without the ability-copying.  If there aren't any large creatures out, the Duplicate itself is fairly beefy.  And the Clone costs an awful lot... it feels too high.
Suggestion: [Image: dmana.gif]5[Image: gmana.gif]5
Remember, it can copy uniques..
I figured it probably could.  But so can Robot Duplicate, in a sense.  I still don't think it justifies the cost.

webrunner Wrote:I have the replibot ability now dizzying all replibots.
That works.

webrunner Wrote:
Tamdrik Wrote:Overload
Meh.  Being limited to generators is a pretty major drawback, especially outside of the MC sandbox.
Becuase there's no generators in any other set?  I'm not sure how the 'mc sandbox' has anything to do with it (excepting maybe that they generally cost less?)
Well, for one they generally cost less, two, they tend to be less of an integral part of the deck beyond just generating mana (i.e. Allying, Power, etc.)

webrunner Wrote:
Tamdrik Wrote:Blood Syphon
Pretty expensive for what it does.  Attaching it to a Suicider represents a fairly realistic good-case scenario, and it's thrice as effective as Gift of Life (which itself should probably cost [Image: lmana.gif]3), for over twice the cost.  But it's also much more easily foiled than a GoL, potentially netting you zero.
Suggestion: Cost to [Image: dmana.gif]4[Image: gmana.gif]3
Use it on something with Invisible Attack
Yes, I know it's possible to get more than 150 damage/life out of it, but I figure you can't really expect to.  Besides, Invisible Attack doesn't guarantee that your opponent won't deal with the creature somehow.

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10-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Post: #105
RE: Balance Thread
Aka, Tsukewase, CK-66 Ninjitsu, anything with Entrenching whenever there's an opening in their defense all work nicely with Blood Syphon. A Light beatstick deck benefits from it pretty well. With this in mind, I say 5/4 is a better balance than 4/3.

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10-09-2006, 11:14 PM
Post: #106
RE: Balance Thread
Regarding Orbital Cannon: I dont think the "undizzier->voip" problem is as bad as you would think.. it is a monster and is therefore vunerable if you dont have an undizzier on hand. A lot of time it's just going to sit there and be wailed on without any way to defend itself.

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10-10-2006, 12:36 AM
Post: #107
RE: Balance Thread
Being on the receiving end of Tamdrik's deck designed to maximize Orbital Cannon, it is really frustrating to have your creatures get wiped out repeatedly 'cause you couldn't get rid of it or the Holy Priest fast enough, and you can hardly stop the Convictions. Oh, and after your creatures are gone, they can move onto your mana. Not good at all. I think the mana activation is probably a good solution.

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10-10-2006, 04:41 AM
Post: #108
RE: Balance Thread
How can we be complaining about the clone not being powerful enough? It's just as powerful as (strongest non-ability immune monster you can fit in your deck) at a fraction of the price, plus it can target the opponent's monsters too, in case they happen to have something bigger. And at 100 life, there's little chance of it being killed first save by Monster D.

If anything, I'd make it unable to target uniques, as it's too easy to infinicombo as it is (Blank Clone + Regent Faritin + Manamancer = Infinite mana). If we done that I could accept a cost reduction.

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10-10-2006, 07:35 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2006 07:35 AM by Kaktus021.)
Post: #109
RE: Balance Thread
As a visual as to why blank clone, as well as nanoreplicator, shouldn't be able to target uniques, I present this. I would of had 2 more DKS's, but I only have one Blank clone.

Side Note: Seal of trophyness doesn't stack. DKS's 50% atk counts the current atk, not the origional.

   

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10-10-2006, 07:47 AM
Post: #110
RE: Balance Thread
The same argument ("same as your strongest creature at a fraction of the cost") can be made for Robot Duplicate.  Except if you haven't managed to get your big, strong creature out yet, Blank Clone isn't good for much.

That said, Masa does have a good point about Nanoreplicator and Blank Clone-- duping abilities that were made unique for an important reason (e.g. Faritin).  It's just a mechanic that is asking for infinite combos and other badness (like the old Messengite Church).  There's a reason Bakuga and Abrasis were made to not be able to bring additional copies of uniques into play.

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10-10-2006, 08:09 AM
Post: #111
RE: Balance Thread
I thought Bakuga could bring back multiple Uniques into play? Anyway, there aren't any broken multi-unique instances for effects (yet) that I can think of anyway.

Also, note that for your DKS setup there, a Holy Strength would add on an extra 350% attack instead of 100%. That is when you realise how silly powerful your setup was.

Anyway, good to hear that we have agreement that cloning the Abilities of Uniques may be a bad thing. That was kind of the main point of my last post.

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10-10-2006, 08:10 AM
Post: #112
RE: Balance Thread
Blank CLone/Nanoreplicator:
The unique cloning ability is part of the charm of the card. I agree it may very well be abusable.. but are we sure it is?

Maybe if they had some other drawback it'd be fine?

Maybe: Blank Clone only works on opponents, and Nanoreplicator .. hmm. maybe.. the card has the Electrical Spike effect on it and is block dizzied? Or maybe the effect has fleeting?

Or maybe: using it oblits itself so it can't be brought back to be re-used?

I'm all for balancing cards, but I don't want to take away what made the card interesting in the first place.

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10-10-2006, 08:24 AM
Post: #113
RE: Balance Thread
I think if Blank Clone worked on your own non-uniques and any opponent's monster (ie doesn't work on your own uniques) it would still have the charm of the concept, just without the potential for abuse. Though it could be cheaper.

Thinking a bit more about Nanoreplicator, it'd be really rubbish if it couldn't target Uniques... I mean, are there actually any non-uniques you'd want to clone? I wouldn't think it'd need to obliterate itself - reuse would probably be scarier on Holy Beacon than Nanoreplicator.

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10-10-2006, 08:41 AM
Post: #114
RE: Balance Thread
I don't know if I like that. I dont really like changes that reek entirely of being balance changes - "everything but your own uniques" just doesnt have any flavor attached to it at all.

I'd rather there to be a nice sensible line between what it can't and can target....

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10-10-2006, 08:53 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2006 09:08 AM by masamunemaniac.)
Post: #115
RE: Balance Thread
I see your point on that, it is a bit arbitrary...

When I get back to the house I'll try and break Blank Clone into a quick infinifirestorm, to see if it's as overpowered as I think it is.



Edit: Now that I understand Arachnid's ability, I'd be happy with a cost/sac drop to 2/1. I thought it dizzy-locked at <6 allying.

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10-10-2006, 09:08 AM
Post: #116
RE: Balance Thread
How about Interference Generator?  Three of them can lock out an opponent.  I suppose that's the most obvious one.

Multiple Selection Committees could be quite annoying, though maybe not broken.  Multiple Cursed Warhammers could be scary, ditto for Nate/George for similar reasons (though auto-mill would help).  Multiple Messengite Murals could go critical, but might be expensive enough to be a manageable risk.  Ditto for SHAB Card.  I think that's about all that I would identify as a concern, though I suppose a field full of SWIMSUIT/Silver Arrow would be nasty.

I agree that "not your own uniques" just seems clumsy.  With Nanoreplicator, a 20 life maintenance might do it, or a 10% chance of disintegrating at end of turn or something (with cost reduction, of course, though that presents Mural issues).

For Blank Clone, the nightmare scenario is something like Faritin, where you simply can't let it exist for one turn, lest it do something infinite (even if it can only do a limited number of activations in this case, it could still be pretty crazy w/2 Manamancers and an Author), so it's harder to deal with.

How about something like "Return target monster to owner's hand: Blank Clone becomes a copy of that monster."?  So the Clone is actually acting as kind of a stand-in for that monster.  The cost might be more warranted now, since it also can bounce opponent's creatures (and rescue your own monsters that are in danger of dying).

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10-10-2006, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 10-10-2006 09:21 AM by webrunner.)
Post: #117
RE: Balance Thread
For Blank Clone, I kind of like the bounce idea, even though it still breaks the intent of the card.

Or how about, it gives itself the Poison status effect for some huge number of turns, so that the clone slowly deteriorates?

As for nanoreplicator, giving the effect a maintanance or disintegrating thing would require extra code, but if we can't come up with a different solution I wouldn't be against it.

How about, > *block dizzy, electrical spike status, [some extra cost] if it's unique: copy target effect.

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10-10-2006, 09:41 AM
Post: #118
RE: Balance Thread
I'd think bounce and copy would be too weak an ability - it'd be a similar, but weaker ability than Mind Burrower (when used on opponent's monsters), but with more life and as such harder to kill. If it only bounced Uniques, but could copy anything, it'd be good play-wise, although flavour-wise it's a little odd.
The poison solution still doesn't really help with being able to get an infinite combo in on the same turn.
Another idea is that if it copies a Unique, it loses the activated ability, but then you don't have the same charm or flavour, it's just balance again.

---
For Nanoreplicator, either 'Dizzy-lock and spike self if Unique' or '(Extra Cost) if Unique' would suffice, both aren't really needed. Or maybe even just dizzy-lock as a failure cost?

---
Out of curiosity, does healing remove Poison, or does it just remove Burn?

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10-10-2006, 09:49 AM
Post: #119
RE: Balance Thread
Quote:although flavour-wise it's a little odd.
Actually if you think about it, not so much- you wouldn't bat an eye to see an extra soldier walking around but seeing two captain whosits would probably raise a few warning flags.

I'd rather not to have to bounce if I could manage it though.

How about it dizzies, block-dizzies, AND poisons for Clone, and "extra cost if unique" for replicator?

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10-10-2006, 01:08 PM
Post: #120
RE: Balance Thread
Well, the card IS called Blank Clone and not Doppleganger; so losing the ability of the copied monster wouldn't be totally unflavorful. It'd be on par with how monsters made with It's Alive! lose their ability. It also makes Blank Clone comparable to Robot Duplicate in that the stats are copied but not the ability (though that may be a negative more than a positive in regards to intent of the card).

Would it be bad for Orbital Cannon to only be able to fire every three turns and be played facedown? It could work the same way Gunner Turret does only it gains a counter every draw phase (or end turn).

As a side note, and I know this is a far cry and a vain hope, can Seal of Trophyness be made to stack? It'd help players with getting points on the Dev site to get boosters.
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