Balance Thread

We really could use implementing one of the double-dizzy/block-dizzy terms into the game. Also, I second that solution. You pay roughly the cost of 2 I-shields to get a repeating I-shield every two turns, so the robot req makes not as one-sided. (Tip: Use Killbot as the required bot. Dizzy all robots, ToD all non-robots!)

not a flavourful balance, but probably makes it more balanced. I may give some thought to this once I'm capable of giving thought.

And 'dizzy-lock'' is as close as we have to an official term. I got it from webrunner during an inquisition back awhile ago (when I was working on that reword project).

Dethstrik Suicider: Needs a nerf to 125-145 damage. Combo this with undizziers and it can be VERY potent.

Mistress Milari: Might need a little more health. No arguments about the ability cost (in a non-pirate theme deck, it can be very potent especially with gremlin pit).

Dethstrik Suicider: It's function is similar to that of Melrak Scout, so I'll compare the two of those.

Pros:
Over double the attack
Space Ship synergy
Face Down

Cons:
It costs 5 more and 2 less (¹/₃ mana more overall?)
No Speed Summon
No follower synergy
Can't survive traps
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Speed Summon is, on this card, better than Face Down. But we know that undizziers are cheap and commonly used, and a dizzier would do the job just as well.
At one life it dies from just about anything, but snipers are almost as capable of oneshotting a Melrak Scout too.
Follower synergy can be useful, but not on a card that only stays one turn. Space Ship synergy is probably more useful overall, what with Secret Asteroid Base making them free.

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Now, let's assume that you always use an undizzier with Suicider, and that the nonbolded differences cancel out. That's an extra 2 mana and a card (re Convinction). That puts its combined cost at about 10¹/₃ and a card, so let's be conservative and say 13¹/₃ mana total (re ToK&AL). You could argue that you need two cards for the combo, but you're likely to use multiple undizziers in the deck, and they're very useful for other scenarios too, so it's not so much of an argument. So you pay just under twice as much mana for just over twice as much effect. This seems to be unbalanced, as every other card displays diminishing returns properties.
Note that in total the Speed Summon was evaluated at 5 mana here, which is probably way way too high.

So all in all, I would say that an attack of 120-125 would be suitable for Suicider.

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I'm not sure whether Mistress Milari needs a lifeboost or not, but I'd probably say no it. HaAven't tested ogiven tu lit

Um... trying to compare cards by throwing in extra cards (i.e. undizziers) is pretty dicey, particularly since the Scout and Suicider are significantly different cards (but then the Suicider is pretty unique in general).  I'd suggest something like the Skeletal Abomination, except I think that's overpriced.  It's really the big brother of the Giant Letter X, with an insta-die/one-shot drawback and a facedown advantage.  There are quite a few non-trap damage sources that will nuke a Suicider but not a Scout.  Chookie (pinger and hachooken), the MC Drone, War Diane, Khrimech, Missile Pod, Foombolt, War Reckless Abandon, Holy Conjurer, Babble, Metal Babble, Killer Shadow, Whizrorb, Knell'Dorn, Orders, Ophelia, VCH Gildward, Mallet of Extreme Pain, and Magmancer.  And then there's all the traps and trap-like effects (e.g. Mountain Range), which are certainly non-trivial.  I think 120-125 is too low.  I suppose I could see bumping it down to 145 to avoid two-hit-killing your opponent, but I'm not positive that's even necessary, given that they die if you look at them funny.

BTW- Secret Asteroid Base is reusable? That sounds too <strike>good</strike> powerful to be true.

A secret asteroid base doesn't just blow up once you launch the first ship.

It's just not so secret any more.

maybe make suicider 149 so you can't two-hit kill but it's otherwise pretty much identical?

How is the balance in LD, as a whole? They have hardly been touched.

I haven't had time to do an LD list.  My biggest comment, though, quickly, is that the "either-or/50-50" spells are pretty much useless right now (so are [Ac|De]celerator).

I'm okay with 149 on Suicider.  Or 145, or 150, for that matter.

I just assumed that the little "1" counter meant it was one-use.  And a secret asteroid base may not blow up, but it might not be manufacturing ships for free, either.  It might just come with one in the hangar.

oh, no, thne 1 counter is used as a cost multiplier, actually (I tried to make it work a different way but it was infinite looping)

It's best to just ignore it.


Fortune Or Bust may need to be re-thought (it was originally going to be draw or discard, but there's issues iwth multiple discard that I dont want to deal with right now). Right now I think it'd be too good a decking tool if made any cheaper, and useless otherwise. Maybe it should be mana gain or mana loss instead of cards?

Life or Death.. may need creative fixing (right now you can either be at 200 life or have an eternal out on turn two). I'm thinking perhaps make the percentage based on the cost of the monster?

Cruelty or Mercy could use to be cheaper.

Dunno about time coin. I can see abuse in an autogun deck.

149 on Suicider's good. You can't combine with Holy Strength for a oneshot kill. Also, Grand survives.

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The counter on the Secret Asteroid Base is used to denote whether the ability's in effect or not. I've not actually seen it used, so I can't think up a rewording that would help with that.

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Clockwork Paladin's ability is a bit hard to get activated, but once it does it's pretty strong, and he also powers other allies. As is, it's got the stats of a 4 mana monster, and it costs a fraction more than that. I'd probably take its sac down a bit, maybe to 32 or 41.

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CK-99 Samurai is strong on its own, and stronger than a skelebird if you have one other monster. It might still be a bit strong, but it's not horribly overpowered anymore. I'd either take 5 off a stat, or lower the sac some.

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TR-40 Modulo is still woefully bad. Might do with being a 20/25 that gained maybe the cost + the sac?

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NM-85 Nanomachine is fairly good. It's got attractive sac values and a nice ability for passing the breakpoints when monsters match up (a la the burn your own starship drive tactic). The only concern is how some 1/1 monsters could make Radd Lifers invulnerable. If it gave 2xlife and dealt one damage to your own monsters only, it'd be probably be more balanced.

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Chrome Dragon's still a little ambiguous. Lessee, an optimal scenario with 5 effects would be:
Assuming (3x+3y)*3z: 81 for one non-gen, 216 for four non-gens.
Assuming 3x+3y*3z: 225 for five non-gens, 50 for all gens.
Still seems absurdly powerful to me.

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Oh, I just realised that you said LD, not LG.
Dimensional Disrupt seems like a pointless hoser. Horror decks are rare, but in the off chance this meets it, it's crazily cheap and cantrips. If it doesn't face a horror deck, it can't even cantrip, it's deadweight.
I'd change the horror hosing completely I reckon. Maybe if it destroyed target token monster?

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Now for the cards from that stealth post:
Fortune or Bust: If it was or speed, the discard and mana loss could be also used as a workaround counterspell. If it was discard at random it might be better too. It wouldn't overpower normal decking use etc either.
Life or Death: I can only throw out random ideas here. Can only be used if the number of turns taken > total mana cost of the monster? Only useable when under 100 life (so it really is Life or Death)? Also puts a Lifetimer into play (nontoken so it activates when killed, doesn't set th 400 life)?
Cruelty or Mercy: This is an odd one. It's actually 50% chance of desruction and 25% chance of doubling life, considering that the two are mutually exclusive and that the destruction takes priority. It's therefore made pretty useless for boosting except in a real emergency, but for the same mana cost you can get a guaranteed Acid or Reclaim, which would almost always be better.
Time Coin: This looks powerful enough I reckon. You'd only use it in a deck with which you don't care about skipping turns (ie Autogun, decking/stall), and it's about half the price of Time Machine for half the chance.

target token monster.. that's a great idea actually.

Chrome dragon: Maybe i'll up the cost a bit more?


Edit:
I think you misunderstand the Or cards.

It isn't 50% individually, it's a 50/50 chance one way or the other. Essentially it's "flip a coin. if heads X if tails Y", so no, the destruction doesn't take precidence- any time it doesnt destroy it doubles.

one Question:
Why do three of those allying generators have rarity 39 and some have rarity 40?

and why do some of the switching generators have ratrity 41 and some have rarity 42?

Well thosee were two questions and it's not all that importrant but in the end there'll be slightly more of some of those generators than of others of those.

anyway, have fun :)

Try plotting a graph of card number (minus 749 to remove non-MC) vs rarity for Mechanical Chaos. Notice anything special?

Edit: Yes, I completely misunderstood the X Or Y cards. Thinking about it I have no idea how - their very names imply exactly what you said, though I think the wording might suggest separate 50% chances (ie 25% of both, 25% neither, etc)

I destroy target token creature for Dimensional Disrupt.

As for the wording on the 'coin flip' cards, how about "Equal chance of each" instead of "50% chance of each"?

Life or Death: I like the idea of basing it off the creature's cost.  How about something like: X is total cost of target monster in graveyard.  Equal chance of either:
Monster is put into play OR You take 10X damage.

Time Coin is still pretty useless even in an Autogun deck.  Think of it as "50% chance: Target player takes 39 damage and all his passive abilities fire".  For 3+3 mana.  And that's in probably the most abusive situation possible.

Fortune or Bust is so-so in a decking deck (expensive) and useless in other decks.

Chrome Dragon: Actually, if it's 3x + (3y * 3z), (standard order of operations), the best you can do is 69/90.  Five non-gens would make it 15/90. (3x5 + ((3x0) x (3x5)) = 15 + (0 x 15) = 15 + 0)  That seems acceptable for 65 creature, considering that it's not *given* that you have a full field of effects in a 2-3 mix, and even if you do, your opponent can use effect D to give it -30 attack.

Cruelty or Mercy: Probably the best of the 'coin flip' cards, but still pretty bad.  I'd much rather use a Reclamation at similar cost.  At 2/2 I imagine it would be usable.

Oh, and the 'celerators still suck.

Oh, and aside from Chrome Dragon, I think I pretty much agree with Masa's comments on the LG cards (though I'm ambivalent on Clockwork Paladin and I think he understates the uselessness of TR-40 Modulo). I'm assuming when he says '2x life' wrt Nanomachines, he means 4 life per Nano.

Yay, everyone loves my tokenbuster idea.

And I got my x, y and z wrong ways around when working mine out. I was assuming a 3*non-gens*3*effects. Should probably actually play the card to get a better feel for it...

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Edit: I don't recall saying 'wrt' anywhere But yeah, I think gaining life equal to 3x the Nanos in play (then losing 1) might be a bit more prudent... with 4x, with 4 and another monster you could distribute 60 lifepoints per turn from four 1/1 monsters - I'd think 44 would be a bit more manageable. Besides, just a couple of lifepoints is often enough to let a monster survive against a roughly equal monster, which alone would be fairly decent for a 1/1 monster's ability.

I think destroying token creatures is a nice idea for Dimensional Disrupt also.

I think Suicider should be 140. I see 5/5 as roughly equivalent to 7 monocolor, and for that much you get Melrak Scout, who isn't as hosed by Towers but has half the attack.

Time Coin + Cosmic Rift seem to suck tremendously to me... Stopping one sac, play, and attack phase just isn't worth the high mana, used up Effect Slot, and either your hand or your own turns.

I'm of the opinion Accelerator is fine, though Decelerator I haven't seen much.

Comsic Rift could be cheaper, but it's probably quite effective in stall decks.

Time Coin at 3/2 would probably be a good cost, but somehow I think that balanced / costs are part of the X or Y theme.

I intend it to be (X+Y)*Z. I dont know what it's currently working as though.

Eeep! Play Fortune or Bust after playing your first turn generators and you stand to lose nothing, while having a 50% chance of starting the game with an extra 33.

Can't think up a fix though.

Why is Cosmic Rift good at all?