Create-A-Card Competition

Sasha Wrote:And Andriex, Rafael is one of the SEVEN main angels, not one of the THREE archangels.

As always, Andriex is ...
!?

You misunderstand what I wrote.

Andriex Wrote:that was the third archangel to gain prominence in Christian history

I didn't say that he was one of any group of three, I said he was the third in an unnamed list of Archangels. (You're going to regret this, cause now you have to listen to me blather on :P) You are sort of correct in saying he's one of a grouping of seven (They're seven archangels, not just angels), but what I was referring to was the chronological appearance of named archangels in Christian history. If you know this much (which impresses the crap outta me), you probably know what I meant at this point, but for anyone else reading... a history lesson. Angels originally went unnamed until the exile of the Jews from their homeland. As the canon was elaborated on throughout the ages, two archangels gained names and prominence: Micheal, generally represented as a warrior, and Gabriel, shown as a messenger, both in the Book of Daniel. These are the only two angels who remain unilaterally named throughout all forms of modern Christianity. (Incidentally, in some denominations, only Micheal is considered an Archangel, as Gabriel was only given that title in the scriptures that would appear after the Book of Daniel.)

Rafael is the third named angel to, as far as is known, have been named. His name (not sure about title, to be honest) was given in the Book of Tobit. However, and why I mentioned "three", he is only seen as canon in (of the prominent denominations) Catholicism and Orthodox. This pretty much accounts for anything directly influenced by the ecumenical council's decisions.

The other four, to make up the seven, would be Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and Jarahmeel from the Book of Enoch. The reason these are generally separated from the other three is because the Book of Enoch is attributed to the great-grandfather of Noah (the eponymous Enoch), a claim that has become disputed by Christian Scholars (mainly the Vatican, IMO). As such there is great debate over this, and the Book of Enoch is NOT observed by the largest subsection of organized Christian faith. For those playing at home, the division goes as such: Micheal, Gabriel|Rafael|Uriel, Ragual, Sariel, and Jarahmeel.

Now, if that's not confusing enough some groups, such as subsections of the Orthodox faith, only regard parts of the Book of Enoch as religion canon. As the later sections of it are entirely concerned with the hierarchy of the angelic hosts, this cuts out a tremendous section of angels. (As a foot note, I generally consider the second half the "Book of El". The reason is that it establishes that all archangels have 'el' in their name ((for those paying attention, Ragual translates in different ways)) which sets a tremendous divide between them and other Christian sects. ...it may also be because of the inherent Superman joke. Shut up.)

---

What's "!?" and why am I it? I hope it's a censored curse word, because I totally am.

sXeAndriex Wrote:What's "!?" and why am I it? I hope it's a censored curse word, because I totally am.

I can vouch for the veracity of this.

Now I remember why I don't go to church.

Kennisiou Wrote:12
4
Truensil, First Angel Sister
Call unique angel sister
(Entrenching)
Whenever another angel you control is attacked its attacker takes 7 damage
Target monster takes 25 damage, if you control another of the Angel Sisters the
monster dizzies as well, if you control both other Angel Sisters the monsters next to it take 10 damage
47/102

A nice card. Seems to be in the vicinity of balance.

Kennisiou Wrote:12
Zero
Kurai, Second Angel Sister
Call unique angel sister
Whenever another angel you control is attacking another monster it deals 8 extra damage
Kurai's attack is equal to your * 4, and Kurai doesn't undizzy next turn whenever it deals damage
If you control another Angel Sister, Kurai gains 12 life at the end of each turn
If you control both other Angel Sisters, Kurai has 8 destroy target effect
0/64

This card is awful, unless you have 20 or so . But if you do have a ton of , there are better ways to take advantage. Ick.

Kennisiou Wrote:12
6
Pepiya, Third Angel Sister
Call unique angel sister
So long as Pepiya has at least 80 attack, she has (quick hit)
Draw Phase: Pepiya gets +4/+4 and an additional +1/+1
for each of the other Angel Sisters in play and other angels get +2/+2
63/77

Legendary hero gains at least +4/+4 every turn, unless your opponent has no monsters on the field. Usually it gains more. I think this card is a bit weak.

Legendary Hero doesn't have Quick Hit after using Equip Weapon on him though.

Tobit 12:15 Wrote:I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord.

Nowhere in there does it say he's an archangel.  So you can see how the view that there are only three archangels, Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer can be supported.

Now then, where in the world did you find the book of Enoch?  i.e. is it in the Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or Slavic Bible or appendix?  After which book is it?

And sorry, I'm using NRSV, but I just parted with my other apocryphal version after I went to New York for Labor Day.

Oh, and the !? was a sign of surprise that Andriex is not always right.

MageofSpades Wrote:

sXeAndriex Wrote:What's "!?" and why am I it? I hope it's a censored curse word, because I totally am.

I can vouch for the veracity of this.

I thought you said voracity, I was like What?

Nacho Wrote:Now I remember why I don't go to church.

So all this time I've been buying cards from a pagan!?

j/k.

Too bad this is not one of those forums that give you points for how long your posts are. :)

aguydude Wrote:

Kennisiou Wrote:12
4
Truensil, First Angel Sister
Call unique angel sister
(Entrenching)
Whenever another angel you control is attacked its attacker takes 7 damage
Target monster takes 25 damage, if you control another of the Angel Sisters the
monster dizzies as well, if you control both other Angel Sisters the monsters next to it take 10 damage
47/102

A nice card. Seems to be in the vicinity of balance.

Yeah, it needs better stats a little, but I'm horrible at trying to identify where it would be balanced and where it would be good. I think it would most commonly see use in miasma decks, then in angel sister decks next. Why miasma before angel sisters? Because an angel with an arm cannon that gets protected when attacked would be kinda formidable, I'd think, especially if you have a few kelar towers, too. The card would most likely be added as an afterthought, though, a monster that can finishe the enemy off and still help complete the lockdown in the middle and late game.

aguydude Wrote:

Kennisiou Wrote:12
Zero
Kurai, Second Angel Sister
Call unique angel sister
Whenever another angel you control is attacking another monster it deals 8 extra damage
Kurai's attack is equal to your * 4, and Kurai doesn't undizzy next turn whenever it deals damage
If you control another Angel Sister, Kurai gains 12 life at the end of each turn
If you control both other Angel Sisters, Kurai has 8 destroy target effect
0/64

This card is awful, unless you have 20 or so . But if you do have a ton of , there are better ways to take advantage. Ick.

I tried to keep it balanced in comparison with Eikre. It would most likely see most use in Column of Iridith decks or FoL decks. In these decks, it's easy to get lots of lmana and even after using the "better ways to take advantage" you still usually have a pretty big surplus. The thing would be pretty strong in those decks, but in Angel Sister decks without that gen I think you're right that it would be really weak. I think I should add a bit more starting life and give her a sac. It's funny because the entire time I was expecting these cards to be used in decks with some seriously massive gen since it's normally hard to get three 12-costers out and they're definitely strongest with eachother. This is the one that's meant to take advantage of surplus mana after you've played all three or while you're waiting to play another and I kept thinking of her as the strongest.

aguydude Wrote:

Kennisiou Wrote:12
6
Pepiya, Third Angel Sister
Call unique angel sister
So long as Pepiya has at least 80 attack, she has (quick hit)
Draw Phase: Pepiya gets +4/+4 and an additional +1/+1
for each of the other Angel Sisters in play and other angels get +2/+2
63/77

Legendary hero gains at least +4/+4 every turn, unless your opponent has no monsters on the field. Usually it gains more. I think this card is a bit weak.

Yeah, I should increase its power increasing abilities a bit more... The Quick hit is what I put on her to make her on par with holy monks and legendary heroes without really overpowering them much, but without some stronger buffs I don't think she'll get it very easily. I think I should make it with the goal of getting the (quick hit) three turns after she's played under normal circumstances.

And, since I talked about where the other angels would see use, I think I'll say something about this one: Angel Sister decks first, then any deck that uses monsters that increase attack power naturally (aside from arm cannon decks, since she doesn't really need an arm cannon and that breaks theme a bit).

Thanks for your feedback, I'll change the cards a bit to strengthen them and probably make most of their synergies with other angels stronger.

Edit: The cards have been changed. Also, I got rid of all numbers in the cards that were multiples of five (save for the second angel's sac), because normal breakpoint numbers are boring.

Huh, now that I think of it... does it annoy anyone that we're discussing biblical stuff here? If it does, I'll totally take it to PM. I just figured that since this was a nice, shockingly polite (on the internet? And about Religion? I know, I'm scared too) discussion that there was no reason to stop.

Sasha Wrote:Nowhere in there does it say he's an archangel. So you can see how the view that there are only three archangels, Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer can be supported.

Well, two problems there. First off, Lucifer is not unilaterally agreed upon as being an archangel. Ezekiel 28:14 has multiple translations which, in reference to Satan, cause his title to be brought into question. Now the second is a matter of context. His statement of the seven angels is a direct reference to the only seven angels that appear in post-Exilic Judaism. Now, if you'll remember what I explained in my last post, the seven were a grouping that was split apart due to the disagreement by theologians over the credibility of the Book of Enoch. However, Rafael (or Azarias at that point) is still referencing the angelology put forth in the beginning of Enoch. This is the heirarchy of El I briefly mentioned, a listing of the archangels of heaven. While the book itself is deemed unreliable to some Christian sects, he is clearly referencing it (as well as the seven mentioned in Revelations, for those playing at home). So while the actual record of the seven is not reliably written, he is still listing a group of seven angels that are written as the archangels of heaven (and are known to include Gabriel and Michael, who are both unilaterially agreed to be archangels). Though, I must admit, there is one slight arguement on the 'seven' archangels. In Eastern Orthodox, the seven angels are Gabriel, Michael, Rafael, Uriel, Selaphiel, Jegudiel, and Barachiel. I had forgotten about this yesterday, sorry about that. Anyway, you'll see that these seven always include Rafael as their third, unless they simply don't mention the other five by name.

Oh, there's also a bunch of debate over the fallen angel and his status (and the fact that Lucifer is... almost universally agreed upon to not be his name), if you want me to go into it. It's kinda divergent of the current topic, but I figured you might be curious since you don't seem to have access to some of the other books and information out there.

Sasha Wrote:Now then, where in the world did you find the book of Enoch? i.e. is it in the Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or Slavic Bible or appendix? After which book is it?

Ah, now this is a toughy. I found the book in seminary, but that's really not the most accessible place in the world :P The fuckers a bit hard to nail down, but if you want a best guess... try one of those creepy fuckin' Christian book stores that pop up occasionally in strip malls. The Book of Enoch is mainly referenced by the Orthodox church of Ethiopia and by theologian scholars. But... that's really just for dialectic bullshit, so it's still hard to find.
As for where it's placed, it's between Jubilees and Meqabyan 1, 2, and 3. Oh! I just realized, you should check out Jewish lit places if you want to find the Book of Enoch. If ya know your Genesis, Enoch is the son of Jared (It's 5:something, off the top a' my head), so it used ta be part of Judaical canon. Might still be in some of the esoteric sects of Orthodox Judaism. Ashamed to admit it, but I'm not even willing to take a guess as to whether or not it is. My knowledge of Judaism is a bit lacking.

Sasha Wrote:Oh, and the !? was a sign of surprise that Andriex is not always right.

Oh, we all know that can't be true. I am always right about everything in every way. Ever.

I'll have to check out the Book of Enoch. I've always wondered about the hierarchy of angels.

Unless you feel like dealing with some information about angels amoungst TONS of other Biblical information, I'd suggest just trolling the net. If you want, I'll see what I can dig up and PM you some links.

I wouldn't mind hearing about this either, seeing as I take a class on this this semester, so by Christmas I should be able to put forth much more informed positions about this.

Maybe I should have selected something that wouldn't turn into a biblical debate.

My savior can beat up your savior!

Hmmm, well though I'd like to get back to the whole card compitition thing, though did wikied angels and found the hierarchy ( well a few of them)

Heres the link for the Christian one

Christian Hierarchy of Angels

and one for a list of the different hierarchies

Other Hierarchies of Angels

anyways, can't wait to see who wins this round.

Oh yeah?  Well my Saviour is unique: he can ensure your savior doesn't even exist...  unless we share a One.  :S

OK, yeah, this is the hierarchy of TYPES of angels, not NAMES of angels. Therefore, if you notice, Rafael and Michael are not there. Also, you still haven't brought forth any source of the book of Enoch. This is fun enough though.

oh yeah, well my savior never existed in the first place, so good luck beating him!!!

Ha, my Saviour already has. On the cross. So you strive in vain, my Saviour had been the Victor all along.

My saviour is immune to your +21 Cross.

I think it's time to stop this particular course of conversation.

Edit: Also.

5
5

Franklin the Angel Trainer
Call unique Angel
Add to counter
all angels attack set to counter *10


0/40