Tick Tock: How Mechanical Chaos Scaled Up the Entire Damn Game, Part 2

1. i don't see the word unique there
2. i believe "seems" leaves me some room for generalization
3. i included both reliability AND sac in that sentence which is referring to clockworks AND ores
4. i probably should have said "their other strong point" my mistake
5. i'm not using anything for an excuse to boost them i'm giving reason for why one boost is better then another (and in my opinion the only way to boost the cards in the first place)

sorry you misunderstood
if you want reasons for why they should be boosted at all i can do that but that isn't what i've been trying to do

Okay, now you're just being silly. Those are all lame excuses for a poorly designed sentence. Don't try to BS your way out of it, the sentence totally meant what I interpreted it as regardless of what you intended it to mean. You treated the sac as a defining for the Prince Gens by saying that it had better sac and reliability that *MC gens*. That sentence meant that you think the prince gens have better sac than *all* the MC gens and better reliability that *all* the MC gens and could only stand to be interpreted as such. You were arguing for sac, so any argument for saying why you think upping the sac is better than X is an argument for boosting it, as your saying it deserves X boost over something else.

One last thing, just to be clear: You are for a boost, correct? Because earlier in the thread you were saying you didn't want a boost but now... Are you just saying that you'd prefer upping their sac over something else?

Quote:. Don't try to BS your way out of it, the sentence totally meant what I interpreted it as regardless of what you intended it to mean.

so...my sentence meant...what you wanted it to mean regardless of what i actually intended it to mean?
right
that totally makes sense /sarcasm

Quote:You treated the sac as a defining for the Prince Gens by saying that it had better sac and reliability that *MC gens*. That sentence meant that you think the prince gens have better sac than *all* the MC gens and better reliability that *all* the MC gens and could only stand to be interpreted as such.

i addressed this more then once already
not only have i addressed it i already said that i misspoke in my last post (see #4) so i'm not sure why you're bringing it up again

Quote:You were arguing for sac, so any argument for saying why you think upping the sac is better than X is an argument for boosting it, as your saying it deserves X boost over something else.

mind retyping this?
it doesn't make any sense to me

Quote:One last thing, just to be clear: You are for a boost, correct? Because earlier in the thread you were saying you didn't want a boost but now... Are you just saying that you'd prefer upping their sac over something else?

i'm pro boost
i said that duel gens are baseline and can't/wont be boosted and that we should probably wait until MT comes out to even discuss them being boosted
since the only resistance i really saw was myself i decided to jump in and present my own boost because i don't think noodles is the correct way to boost them

Quote:so...my sentence meant...what you wanted it to mean regardless of what i actually intended it to mean?
right
that totally makes sense /sarcasm

Except that want and interpret are two completely different words. I was talking grammatically. The way I interpreted your sentense made complete grammatical sense and so you can't fault me for interpreting it in such a way.

Quote:i addressed this more then once already
not only have i addressed it i already said that i misspoke in my last post (see #4) so i'm not sure why you're bringing it up again

I'm addressing the points you brought up in your last post and how a lot of them aren't actually true. You're missing all my points by miles, which is why I don't actually think you're paying attention. Sometimes you even say things that are completely off topic, changing around my words to suit your argument. Or you ignore my points and then when I repeat them, claim to have responded to them. It's getting kind of annoying. I don't know, I guess it may just be you not understanding where I'm coming from at all but...

Quote:mind retyping this?
it doesn't make any sense to me

Any argument you make in the balance forum that supports one balance over another is an argument supporting that balance to an extent and thus is subject to debate.

Quote:i'm pro boost
i said that duel gens are baseline and can't/wont be boosted and that we should probably wait until MT comes out to even discuss them being boosted
since the only resistance i really saw was myself i decided to jump in and present my own boost because i don't think noodles is the correct way to boost them

Okay. Just checking.

That all being said, this is really getting nowhere. So to simplify things: All I really want to know is, why do you think prince duel gens deserve extra sac or if not extra sac, then what boost do you support and why?

bubbleman Wrote:That all being said, this is really getting nowhere.

I just really wanted to emphasize this because originally I was going to suggest you two take this to AIM, IRC, etc. to sort out.

Also I'll note right now because it keeps being brought up that Electric Company is an experiment. If it fails, it will be nerfed. If it succeeds, then and only then will it be appropriate to use as a comparison; much in the same way we don't cite broken cards to make balance arguments.

EDIT: Noodle (below) has the right idea.

Mind Burrower is underpowered, just look at Would You Be Mine!

you know
i spent a lot of time responding to all that other stuff and decided it was pointless and deleted it
we're being childish and it needs to stop
lets stop arguing (about unnecessary things) and get back to balance

Quote:All I really want to know is, why do you think prince duel gens deserve extra sac or if not extra sac, then what boost do you support and why?

if duel gens are meant to be the baseline for all duel color generation then they should be kept as basic as possible
we aren't likely to convince web of adding new abilities to them (even IF said abilities would benefit the cards more then extra sac)
there are only two things that puts it apart from clockworks and ores
reliability (both) and sac (clockworks)
we CAN'T make them anymore reliable at generating so the only other logical thing to boost (in my own mind at least) is the sac value
again it might not benefit the cards that much but it would help them and it surely (in my own opinion) wouldn't break them
this is my preferred boost because it seems to me the only thing that has even a chance of passing
if web says duel gens aren't really a baseline and that giving them new abilities is ok then i'm all for noodles boost
but until then i think i'll stick with mine as it makes the most sense to me

edit: heh ninja'd
i thought you were going to sleep noodle? >_>

Uh, there's been no consensus here yet, right?

I'd like to take away my vote for adding sac to the prince dual gens. They don't really need it. Their flexibility makes them fine on their own. They're especially good in bi-color decks that are non-generator-effect-heavy so that you don't have to take up more of your effect space to get reliable generation (ie, you don't need power, and won't have enough effect space to get allying). I run prince dual gens in my PlotThisWay deck and should be running them in my Slow-All deck (I'm not, because all of my stone orbs are in my plot deck right now). I vote they're fine as-is. They may be a bit weak now, but I don't think there's any way we can fix it without making them entirely overpowered.

Noodle Wrote:Mind Burrower is underpowered, just look at Would You Be Mine!

Agreed, Burrower needs speed sommon and (failure: Undizzied).