Create-A-Card Competition

Huh, now that I think of it... does it annoy anyone that we're discussing biblical stuff here? If it does, I'll totally take it to PM. I just figured that since this was a nice, shockingly polite (on the internet? And about Religion? I know, I'm scared too) discussion that there was no reason to stop.

Sasha Wrote:Nowhere in there does it say he's an archangel. So you can see how the view that there are only three archangels, Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer can be supported.

Well, two problems there. First off, Lucifer is not unilaterally agreed upon as being an archangel. Ezekiel 28:14 has multiple translations which, in reference to Satan, cause his title to be brought into question. Now the second is a matter of context. His statement of the seven angels is a direct reference to the only seven angels that appear in post-Exilic Judaism. Now, if you'll remember what I explained in my last post, the seven were a grouping that was split apart due to the disagreement by theologians over the credibility of the Book of Enoch. However, Rafael (or Azarias at that point) is still referencing the angelology put forth in the beginning of Enoch. This is the heirarchy of El I briefly mentioned, a listing of the archangels of heaven. While the book itself is deemed unreliable to some Christian sects, he is clearly referencing it (as well as the seven mentioned in Revelations, for those playing at home). So while the actual record of the seven is not reliably written, he is still listing a group of seven angels that are written as the archangels of heaven (and are known to include Gabriel and Michael, who are both unilaterially agreed to be archangels). Though, I must admit, there is one slight arguement on the 'seven' archangels. In Eastern Orthodox, the seven angels are Gabriel, Michael, Rafael, Uriel, Selaphiel, Jegudiel, and Barachiel. I had forgotten about this yesterday, sorry about that. Anyway, you'll see that these seven always include Rafael as their third, unless they simply don't mention the other five by name.

Oh, there's also a bunch of debate over the fallen angel and his status (and the fact that Lucifer is... almost universally agreed upon to not be his name), if you want me to go into it. It's kinda divergent of the current topic, but I figured you might be curious since you don't seem to have access to some of the other books and information out there.

Sasha Wrote:Now then, where in the world did you find the book of Enoch? i.e. is it in the Hebrew, Greek, Latin, or Slavic Bible or appendix? After which book is it?

Ah, now this is a toughy. I found the book in seminary, but that's really not the most accessible place in the world :P The fuckers a bit hard to nail down, but if you want a best guess... try one of those creepy fuckin' Christian book stores that pop up occasionally in strip malls. The Book of Enoch is mainly referenced by the Orthodox church of Ethiopia and by theologian scholars. But... that's really just for dialectic bullshit, so it's still hard to find.
As for where it's placed, it's between Jubilees and Meqabyan 1, 2, and 3. Oh! I just realized, you should check out Jewish lit places if you want to find the Book of Enoch. If ya know your Genesis, Enoch is the son of Jared (It's 5:something, off the top a' my head), so it used ta be part of Judaical canon. Might still be in some of the esoteric sects of Orthodox Judaism. Ashamed to admit it, but I'm not even willing to take a guess as to whether or not it is. My knowledge of Judaism is a bit lacking.

Sasha Wrote:Oh, and the !? was a sign of surprise that Andriex is not always right.

Oh, we all know that can't be true. I am always right about everything in every way. Ever.