Pokémon

Thing is, Scizor actually keeps a wide variety of non-legendary threats in check, and without him they begin to run rampant and... It just turns into a mess from there. >_<

Also, I'll admit, it's an exaggeration. Zapdos and Rotom-A are the best answers, but if you need to you can actually handle Scizor via tricky Gyarados usage or by predicting well.

I could try to find a list of things whose only reliable checks are legendary and ban them, but then you start banning the list of things whose only reliable checks are those guys, and so on and so on until suddenly it turns into a huge mess. Or maybe not.  Eventually there has to be a point of balance where they even out, and that point could be at a reasonable spot that wouldn't lead to banning a whole chunk of what exists right now as a balanced metagame. I wouldn't know. I have never made my own tier list basically from scratch before. Because, you know, that's fucking insane. >_>

Also insane, banning things like Articuno, Uxie, and Regice. It's just... I mean, look, say CMC prints a set of donation cards that say things like, zero mana "take 50 damage," "remove your hand from the game" and "your opponent gains 100 life." Sure, in some situations those cards could be useful, but to call them overpowering is kind of... insane. Banning them just because they're donations makes no sense when they're not "just as good as everything else" but "legitimately worse than everything else." And... Well... Look at Articuno. If you check the site I listed before, you'll notice that it's in the same tier as Delibird. This is because Articuno is absolutely fucking terrible. Regice also. Uxie is actually not bad, but is certainly nothing amazing compared to Swampert, Skarmory, Vaporeon, or even Milotic. Sure, "most people will have trouble getting it," but what does that matter when, really, having it isn't going to help them because you have other, often better options at your own disposal.

There's no way to resolve this argument, save for us duelling in a children's card game!

Prepare to be crushed beneath the might of my Rolling Golems!

ok. i think this is almost ready. kenn can you PM me what you think should be banned, how many pokemon should be allowed, ect? keep in mind all legendaries ARE banned.

Is rotom legendary?

nope. legendaries are things like mewtwo, darkrai, registeel, ect.

Heh...legendary fridge.

(I'm not really sure where I wanted to go with this)

(05-08-2009 03:37 PM)Drifloon Wrote:  I am pretty sure that I am an adult, and I am pretty sure my Nine year old brother has no idea why Gold and Silver games are a big deal.
If you look at who they were marketing to back then, and who they are marketing today, well, what you're saying is as silly as saying Nintendo will never be for adults.

...

The Pokemon Company's entire marketing strategy is centered around the child market.

When they discovered that they had older fans, they signed a few apparel deals with companies like Mighty Fine and got placement in Hot Topic to take advantage of that.

But every single primary marketing initiative from the Pokemon marketing department is focused on the kid market. It's a kid brand. it's a kid product.

Nintendo has absolutely nothing to do with Pokemon's marketing. They are the game distributor/licensee.

I'm not saying adults aren't playing pokemon. The DS in my bag alone proves that isn't the case, coupled with my favorite newspost from Penny Arcade. I am saying that it is a children's game, made to be a children's game. The adult fanbase is almost entirely a coincidence in the U.S. The only reason it has all the depth is has is because the games are made for a Japanese audience first, and Japanese youth is more task-completion oriented, which makes the ability to master a children's game something that is actually done by children in Japan.

And honestly, we all need to get used to the fact that our hobbies are kiddy hobbies to most people. Comic books, video games...sure, geeks appreciate nuances. But it's still kid stuff to most of the world.

I don't really mind so much. When people see a hulking, dark-skinned man with a unkempt beard, shaved head, and crooked glasses hunched over a black DS and muttering about goddamn beaver bastards, I get more space on the subway.

(05-11-2009 12:31 PM)POW9432 Wrote:  And honestly, we all need to get used to the fact that our hobbies are kiddy hobbies to most people. Comic books, video games...sure, geeks appreciate nuances. But it's still kid stuff to most of the world.

I love you.

No, seriously, this is great. I hate being made fun of by people who read Spiderman (no offense here, I read it too from-time-to-time and that shit's great) for playing pokémon as much as I hated being teased by chess players in chess club for playing Magic: the Gathering. We're all nerds here. We're on a forum for a fucking competitive trading card game. Do we really need to act like some of us are nerds about more grown up things than others?

Until I start competitively reading Spider-man, you get mocked.

(05-11-2009 03:19 PM)sXeAndriex Wrote:  Until I start competitively reading Spider-man, you get mocked.

I'm banning Mysterio in our Spiderman tournament, he's too uber.

You're also not allowed to switch series as you're reading. You can't counter my Friendly-Neighborhood with your Spectacular.

POW9432 Wrote:I don't really mind so much. When people see a hulking, dark-skinned man with a unkempt beard, shaved head, and crooked glasses hunched over a black DS and muttering about goddamn beaver bastards, I get more space on the subway.

This is also one of the best mental images I've had all week, thanks for that.

(05-11-2009 12:31 PM)POW9432 Wrote:  

(05-08-2009 03:37 PM)Drifloon Wrote:  I am pretty sure that I am an adult, and I am pretty sure my Nine year old brother has no idea why Gold and Silver games are a big deal.
If you look at who they were marketing to back then, and who they are marketing today, well, what you're saying is as silly as saying Nintendo will never be for adults.

...

The Pokemon Company's entire marketing strategy is centered around the child market.

When they discovered that they had older fans, they signed a few apparel deals with companies like Mighty Fine and got placement in Hot Topic to take advantage of that.

But every single primary marketing initiative from the Pokemon marketing department is focused on the kid market. It's a kid brand. it's a kid product.

Nintendo has absolutely nothing to do with Pokemon's marketing. They are the game distributor/licensee.

I'm not saying adults aren't playing pokemon. The DS in my bag alone proves that isn't the case, coupled with my favorite newspost from Penny Arcade. I am saying that it is a children's game, made to be a children's game. The adult fanbase is almost entirely a coincidence in the U.S. The only reason it has all the depth is has is because the games are made for a Japanese audience first, and Japanese youth is more task-completion oriented, which makes the ability to master a children's game something that is actually done by children in Japan.

And honestly, we all need to get used to the fact that our hobbies are kiddy hobbies to most people. Comic books, video games...sure, geeks appreciate nuances. But it's still kid stuff to most of the world.

I don't really mind so much. When people see a hulking, dark-skinned man with a unkempt beard, shaved head, and crooked glasses hunched over a black DS and muttering about goddamn beaver bastards, I get more space on the subway.

Pokemon, at first, were very much for just ''kids'', just like games in general were. As those kids grew, so did the range that they were trying to appeal to.

As for the Pokemon Company, maybe the US tries to stick to children, but not in Japan, which you know, is where Pokemon is from.

No, they're still pretty damn childish. Children's toys, children's anime, children's manga, the thing's just not for us adults.

Shit, I play it competitively and even I'll admit that it's not a game for adults.

If it were, then it would probably focus a lot more on the competitive aspects and explain them in-game, while ramping up the difficulty curves, since those are the parts that many of the adults are attracted to. The fact is, Nintendo just enjoys sticking giant middle fingers up to the competitive pokémon players, as evidenced by each generation including several minor gameplay or moveset tweaks that people don't notice at first that, once noticed, completely change the way the game is played. Just coming into platinum with only D/P experience was a huge difficulty hump for some players since suddenly puny, baton-passer-team joke pokémon Scizor became the most impressive threat in the meta. For the first few weeks after the noob-rush and the returning oldies rush, you could go for days without playing a single team that wasn't 100% Scizor weak, and that was just one of the minor tweaks. Compound them and suddenly you have Salamence being better than Dragonite, Latias not being overpowering any more, and a whole host of other crazy happenings that people with D/P experience just wouldn't believe no matter what you tried to show them.

(05-11-2009 03:26 PM)MageofSpades Wrote:  I'm banning Mysterio in our Spiderman tournament, he's too uber.

You're also not allowed to switch series as you're reading. You can't counter my Friendly-Neighborhood with your Spectacular.

If you ban Mysterio, you kill the only counter for Ben Reilly and Shocker. You can't tell me you believe that people are above using a clone team. I know I'll be using an adamant natured Scarlet Spider to Impact Webbing sweep entire teams.

Plus, baton pass Kaine to t-bolt abuse with Shocker. Completely bypasses the clone degeneration ability to break the game. Unlike Spidercide, who is just unplayable in competitive. Or anywhere else, since he's so fucking ugly.
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Now playing: The Ramones - I'm Against It

(05-11-2009 04:26 PM)Kennisiou Wrote:  Shit, I play it competitively and even I'll admit that it's not a game for adults.

If it were, then it would probably focus a lot more on the competitive aspects and explain them in-game, while ramping up the difficulty curves, since those are the parts that many of the adults are attracted to. The fact is, Nintendo just enjoys sticking giant middle fingers up to the competitive pokémon players, as evidenced by each generation including several minor gameplay or moveset tweaks that people don't notice at first that, once noticed, completely change the way the game is played. Just coming into platinum with only D/P experience was a huge difficulty hump for some players since suddenly puny, baton-passer-team joke pokémon Scizor became the most impressive threat in the meta. For the first few weeks after the noob-rush and the returning oldies rush, you could go for days without playing a single team that wasn't 100% Scizor weak, and that was just one of the minor tweaks. Compound them and suddenly you have Salamence being better than Dragonite, Latias not being overpowering any more, and a whole host of other crazy happenings that people with D/P experience just wouldn't believe no matter what you tried to show them.

There are a hundred ways they could make pokemon more adult. A real plot would help, as would removing the Butterfrees and Beedrills and replacing them with usable pokemon. I remember hearing about some fans working on making a traditional Pokemon jrpg.

Butterfree and Beedrill are usable, though. >_> At least, they are in-game. They level up and evolve quicker than other types, which is why some speed runners (I've heard) try to catch them to get through the first badges quickly. Not being good competitively and not having a point in-game are different.

That said, there are some that fail on both counts, like Luvdisc and Pachirisu.

Actually, I've seen Pachirisu be useful a few times. Shocker, I know.

...and does anyone have a bleeping Exeggcute/Or? Or perhaps a nice little Jigglypuff? They're the last Pokemans for my national dex completion. I've got an Igglybuff I'm befriending, so I'm mainly needing the Eggs. Plz?

I THINK I do... but I don't know that I have the wifi working on my DS. Send me a message on AIM and I'll see what I can do.

ok the tournament thread is made
i hope that i've made a decent compromise for people who just wanted a fun tournament to dick around in and people who wanted to competitively battle their pokemon

(05-11-2009 04:26 PM)Kennisiou Wrote:  Shit, I play it competitively and even I'll admit that it's not a game for adults

I never said the games were for Adults, I just don't see Pokemon as a strict ''kids'' game.

And they did add layers to competitive matches, with IV's and EV's, and the lot. The games were for ages around 10 when they first came out. My nine year old brother doesn't have any idea what an IV is today. That is all I was saying, that the games are more broad than ''just kids''.