Pokémon

Regardless, there are so many ridiculous Pokedex entries that there is simply no reasonable explanation other than that many of the entries record myths and superstitions, rather than objectively true in-universe facts.

Also, let's consider this: the (thinly veiled) in-story excuse for why you have to catch 'em all is because Oak wants to compile a database of all Pokemon. So how would he have filled in data for Pokemon that he didn't even know about until Ash/Red/Crystal/whoever brings them back? How does the Pokedex even know how many Pokemon exist? And if he did have basic information on all Pokemon (including Mew, etc.) in advance, and just wants to capture them for more advanced research, then why don't you get access to information on a Pokemon type until you actually catch one?

(08-03-2009 07:03 PM)NOLDER Wrote:  does anyone actually have platinum on this forum?

I do. Even if I haven't actually played it for 2 months.

(08-13-2009 02:08 AM)Milo Wrote:  Regardless, there are so many ridiculous Pokedex entries that there is simply no reasonable explanation other than that many of the entries record myths and superstitions, rather than objectively true in-universe facts.

Also, let's consider this: the (thinly veiled) in-story excuse for why you have to catch 'em all is because Oak wants to compile a database of all Pokemon. So how would he have filled in data for Pokemon that he didn't even know about until Ash/Red/Crystal/whoever brings them back? How does the Pokedex even know how many Pokemon exist? And if he did have basic information on all Pokemon (including Mew, etc.) in advance, and just wants to capture them for more advanced research, then why don't you get access to information on a Pokemon type until you actually catch one?

This really mostly applies to the games, and the data he wants collected is never specified. The entries could be written out before hand, and what he is looking for is Height, Weight, Location (maybe), I don't know. But yeah, it's kinda weird.
The Anime, as far as I remember, doesn't tell it's trainers to Catch Them All so that they can fill the Pokedex, they give the Pokedex as a tool to help Trainers.
The Mangas do the same.

The games are very different from the Anime, and even the Manga. They are all different Pokeverse, which probably is why there is a lot of confusion with ''Canon'' and the world in General.


Also, it depends how the flame is for the Charz. If it's just a flame, like the burning of a match, it would go out pretty quickly in the rain, but if it is more of a torch, well, unless it's an extreme rain, which doesn't happen everywhere (and is probably a place where Charz wouldn't want to live in anyway, so would migrate) , the flame should burn pretty steadily even in rain.

I have no idea who came up with the Dex entries. It could have been Oak or not, but the Dex itself was made by him.

My guess is Oak made the technology, and the entries are all written by him, but he uses info collected by other scientists to do so. We know scientists all over the world are studying pokemon, and they probably publish their findings, so all oak has to do is look through the papers as they come out (something he should be doing anyway as the foremost pokemon researcher in the world) and update the pokedex accordingly with short summaries he thinks would be relevant to trainers encountering them in the wild/capturing them.

Pierrot Wrote:The Anime, as far as I remember, doesn't tell it's trainers to Catch Them All so that they can fill the Pokedex, they give the Pokedex as a tool to help Trainers.
The Mangas do the same.

The manga Pokedexes are primarily given as tools to help the trainers, but Oak did want Red to catch 'em all for research reasons. When Red got lazy and never finished the job, he got Crystal to do it for him instead.

Pierrot Wrote:The games are very different from the Anime, and even the Manga. They are all different Pokeverse, which probably is why there is a lot of confusion with ''Canon'' and the world in General.

Actually, I felt the manga tried a little too hard to "justify" ever single aspect of the games as an in-universe function of the Pokedex. The most ridiculous one was where they came up with a "Pikachu emotion mode" for Yellow, simply because the game in question had a button for talking to your Pikachu and geting different responses depending on his happiness. Even worse due to the fact that Yellow in the manga was empathic, and so could already read Pokemon's emotions anyway.

It would have been better if they acknowledged certain game elements as abstractions and simplifications for the sake of better gameplay, rather than trying to copy everything.

Pierrot Wrote:Also, it depends how the flame is for the Charz. If it's just a flame, like the burning of a match, it would go out pretty quickly in the rain, but if it is more of a torch, well, unless it's an extreme rain, which doesn't happen everywhere (and is probably a place where Charz wouldn't want to live in anyway, so would migrate) , the flame should burn pretty steadily even in rain.

This, though, is true. Rain isn't usually enough to put out even a normal torch or campfire, and Charizard's flame is probably a lot more resistant - for one thing, it's a magical flame that doesn't seem seem to need fuel. Also, a strong Charizard can get hit by Surf and not automatically be one-shotted.

Ignacio Wrote:short summaries he thinks would be relevant to trainers encountering them in the wild/capturing them.

Except that at least in the games, you don't get the information until after you capture one.

One theory (not canon) suggested that they're actually your own character's notes upon meeting the Pokemon, meaning they're written from a ten-year-old child's viewpoint...

In the anime though, trainers get info on pokemon without having to catch them, which supports my idea.

I don't remember him telling him anything like that and I just checked and I can't find anything that says that really. But I guess I can keep looking, here is their interaction when he got the Dex:

Oak: What's your name boy?
Red: Red
Oak: Here Red. Take this Pokedex. It's an Encyclopedia of Pokemon. Whenever you see a Pokemon, it's data is recorded in here. By the time you've completed this Pokedex... You might already become one of the greatest trainers ever.
Red: Me.... One of the greatest Trainers ever...

--endchapter2---
--chapter3---

Oak: Red! If you want to fill that Pokedex you can't stay in Pallet Town. You'll need to explore afar. If you ask me, you should start at Viridian Forest. It's straight north of this city. I guarantee that you'll find brand new Pokemon you've never seen before! Besides...that's where... HA HA! Never mind!
Red: ?

--Red Leaves to Forest--

The Pikachu Emotion Button thing... I don't see that mentioned anywhere either, I looked at when Yellow got the Pokedex and it doesn't say that... Again, I'll look around though. In the game there wasn't a button to see your Pikachu's emotions. You talked to it, and you would see how happy it was. That is kinda true for anything in the Pokeverse though, you can generally tell if Pokemon are sad/happy just by paying attention to them/talking to them; at times you can even FEEL what they feel.

Yellow being empathic was probably a result of this ''new'' ability in the games; Pokemon Special was in fact trying to take aspects of the game and make them work in a ''real life'' setting. Even still though, it is quite different from the Game's itself, and they aren't making a Manga of the Game, just taking aspects they feel are important, like only having Eight Gym Leaders, or Giovanni being head of TR, or making Yellow more ''in tune with Pokemon'' because in Yellow Version you are. It's just like them adding Contest to the Manga, it's a feature the Games had that didn't really add to the main story, and so the Manga took it because it was a big deal at the time (like talking to a Pokemon in Gen1) and made it part of the larger story.

Also, I think Red is Ten when he set's off no? In the games you are Eleven and there are a TON of these differences that just don't get that much attention so they seem minor, on top of all the Major differences like Elite Four, and the Gym Leaders, and Fusion Pokemon.

And this is Special, a Manga that, again, was taking things from the Games and making a story out of them purposefully.
Not all the Manga do this...

Iirc, in the first season of the anime, Ash would look up Pokemon he encountered with his Pokedex. He didn't have to catch them to get their names and a short description of them.

He did it in the first episode, when the Pokedex told him pidgeys are good starting pokemon for beginners, and sperrows aren't. He still hasn't caught either one.

What really gets me is in the games, when you catch the 'rare' ones (especially now that they are using god-like entities) how does the pokedex already have the information on them?

Pierrot Wrote:And this is Special, a Manga that, again, was taking things from the Games and making a story out of them purposefully.

They were willing to make Kanto's Elite Four evil just to ramp up the suspense of fighting them. They clearly weren't committed to following the games too closely - the games were used as a basis, but they were prepared to do their own thing when it made for a better story.

Even more quirky is when you remember that Yellow was originally a patch to Red/Blue designed to conform it more closely to the anime's storyline. So manga Yellow was in effect them trying to write a manga based on the game based on the anime, while shaving off the actual connections to the anime. Oddly enough, they actually did a good job of it.

Haplo_64 Wrote:What really gets me is in the games, when you catch the 'rare' ones (especially now that they are using god-like entities) how does the pokedex already have the information on them?

My point exactly. Oak shouldn't even know an exact count of the number of legendaries in the region, let alone more detailed information about them. Anything he does know would be, like I said, myths.

It's surprisingly rare to hear about a legendary Pokemon which turns out to not actually exist...

(08-16-2009 05:29 AM)Haplo_64 Wrote:  What really gets me is in the games, when you catch the 'rare' ones (especially now that they are using god-like entities) how does the pokedex already have the information on them?

Rare pokemon are rare, not unknown. The trios are usually normal but exceptionally rare Pokemon whose existence is known, and habits probably studied, and whose hight, weight, roar, and footprint could be found using sensitive instruments in the pokeballs. And the rest, especially the god-like entities, are usually things of myth, like the Hydra or Odin. It's no surprise that oak would be able to summarize that myth for you, assuming that if they exist their myths must be true.

Yes Milo, that is what I've been telling you.

And:
Pokemon (Game), inspired Pocket Monster (Manga), inspired Pokemon (Anime), inspired Pokemon: Electric tale of Pikachu (Manga)

Pokemon (Game) and Pocket Monster (Manga), inspired Pokemon Special (Manga)

NOW. Yellow (Special) was made because Special (Manga) was following the Games, and Yellow (Game) was made because it was trying follow Pocket Monster (Manga) and Pokemon (Anime)

So yes, you are rightish... The whole franchise is a web of idea stealing.

I couldn't manage to track down where Oak mentions adding the Pikachu emotion thingie to the Pokedex, but here is where it gets used (after, of course, a plot contrivance happens to make this vaguely useful). And here is an example of where Oak complains about Red not catching 'em all.

I also found a source on the "Pokedex is made up" thing in the anime. Episode 66, apparantly.

Bulbapedia Wrote:Professor Westwood admitted to Ash later in the episode, though, that he made up some of the information in the Pokédex. Westwood doesn't travel much, and merely relies on reports for his Pokédex data.

Well, which is it? Does he make up entries whole sale, or simply use unsubstantiated reports made by other scientists? There's a big difference.

why can't it be both?

Bulbapedia Wrote:Professor Westwood admitted to Ash later in the episode, though, that he made up some of the information in the Pokédex. Westwood doesn't travel much, and merely relies on reports for his Pokédex data.

An interesting Theory

Sounds like really bad fanfiction.

That's been around for ages.