[Suggest] Laser / Smite / Empty Void [Finished]

18 monsters 12-16 of which are a reasonable concern.

A side note about 48 vs. 50 is that CMC likes (or at least used to) round numbers so that 2 life could be the difference between needing to attack a monster once to put it into range and needing at least 1 extra damaging effect.



EDIT: Just a little something odd to note about the searcher: If you check the parameters on the left it says, "Highest Attack Points" when the criteria was "Highest Life Points" and the results clearly show it went by the correct criteria (plenty of monsters with more than 50 attack shown).

You forgot the 49 life monsters, of which there are 3, all with abilities.

That reminds me, does that bug where if a card is Face Down it can't be targeted by spells/abilities that are restricted (ex: Torpedo Launcher against Face Down ZFF-15 Mirage) still exist and is Empty Void subject to that problem?

Also, isn't "Empty Void" redundant?

(07-29-2010 02:10 PM)Blue_Elite Wrote:  That reminds me, does that bug where if a card is Face Down it can't be targeted by spells/abilities that are restricted (ex: Torpedo Launcher against Face Down ZFF-15 Mirage) still exist and is Empty Void subject to that problem?

Is this really a bug?

Yes.

(07-29-2010 02:10 PM)Blue_Elite Wrote:  That reminds me, does that bug where if a card is Face Down it can't be targeted by spells/abilities that are restricted (ex: Torpedo Launcher against Face Down ZFF-15 Mirage) still exist and is Empty Void subject to that problem?

Also, isn't "Empty Void" redundant?

I don't know about spells, but I observed a game a week or two back where torpedo launcher wasn't working on face down ships.

No I meant couldn't this be considered a feature of facedown? Facedown is usually pointless enough, letting hosers hit facedowns makes it even more pointless. Not really the time or place I guess.

Indeed, it deserves its own thread. It is in fact a bug, but if it wants to be argued to be a feature (guess what, suddenly Hyperspace has a severely limited but none-the-less universal use) due to the alternative being using hosers to negate the effect of multiple Face Down cards (especially important for Shell Game) then I'm guessing we might be able to persuade the mods to leave it as is. Conversely, Dimensional Disrupt and Exhaust Port Torpedo need all the utility they can get and being able to use hosers to expose Face Downs could instead be the feature.

Just another note on mechanics: if I'm not mistaken, Face Down is like Can't Attack. If you use Dimensional Disrupt on a token and then counter that with Hyperspace, Hyperspace will do nothing because Face Down only disrupts targeting and once the slot is selected doesn't negate (much in the same vain once an attacker is declared and THEN Can't Attack is given to them, their attack will still go through).

Just throwing this in in case I forget about it later: Giving Shells (Wildcard) removes the ability of hosers to "search" through the Shells to find a specific target. Of course, giving them (Wildcard) introduces a host of other possible game-breaking features for cards that rely on a certain type of monster being in play (Exodragon, Kelar Manamancer, etc.).

AFAIK you can use Weak Pt on a face down creature if it meets the requirements.

this sounds really convoluted

personally I'd like my spells and abilities to work on face down's (they're hidden, not immune (well...unless they are....but...yeah....)) but even if that doesn't end up happening I'd at least like some consistency with this shit

(07-29-2010 05:11 PM)Blue_Elite Wrote:  Indeed, it deserves its own thread. It is in fact a bug, but if it wants to be argued to be a feature (guess what, suddenly Hyperspace has a severely limited but none-the-less universal use) due to the alternative being using hosers to negate the effect of multiple Face Down cards (especially important for Shell Game) then I'm guessing we might be able to persuade the mods to leave it as is.

If you want to persuade the mods to leave it as is, you just need to point out that it's something only webrunner can fix and as such the mods have little option but to leave it as is.

Mentioning bugs in unrelated balance threads is a semi-decent way of making the mods leave them as is though.

Also uh yeah, maybe we could get back on topic instead of deciding whether this bug should be a feature.

Vote:Boost Laser and Smite
Those two are terrible not convinced about empty void being bad.

Vote: Boost Laser & Smite
re: aperson

Vote: Boost Smite, no change to Empty Void
Re: Smite has a far too limited scope to be useful as is.

Empty Void is still a good card though. Obliteration is worth slightly under one mana and it can kill monsters slightly over the five mana cost bracket so it seems fair to me. And just from my experience playing it I can safely say it is in no way underpowered.

Tally:

Laser:
Boost: Aperson, NOLDER, Nacho, CPM, Jessy, Aldgar
Smite:
Boost: Aperson, NOLDER, Bubbles, Nacho, CPM, Jessy, Aldgar
Empty Void:
Boost: Nacho, CPM, Jessy, Aldgar, Aperson, NOLDER
No change: Bubbles

Not sure how this went unnoticed, but Empty Void actually did not pass. Aperson and Nolder both only voted to boost laser + smite.

I still count the required 5 votes for it, even without NOLDER's.

And without Apersons?

What about without aperson's?

shouldn't this be tagged?