Breathing Life Into The Cards

I'd want her to cost 6 with a 3 activation cost. As is, her stats are already exactly like Karn's(war), and I think that her ability is worth about 2 if it's activation cost is reduced to 3.

For Lumi I think Tamdrik's proposal of 5 for Lumi and 3 activation is best. I don't think that she should be 6 because then you have to pay 12 mana to gain card advantage, and that's too much.

I'd think 5 cost and 3 for ability would be too cheap, myself. I'd say the ability (and cleric type) is worth more than 1 mana on top of Karn.

I think 5 would be too cheap... 6 and 3 cost would be a good change, though. Maybe 2 cost, actually, but I know that some people prefer conservative changes.

I really do think that 12 mana is too much to pay for a card advantage... 6 cost and 2 ability is what I'd prefer, but since it doesn't look like that will happen I won't be against a 3 ability cost, I guess.

but for every monster she kills she gets another +1 advantage. if she kills one week monster, uses her ability once, then suicides into another one, she was a +2 for 9 mana. 6 and 3 cost is fine by me, though I wouldn't object to another 5 life while we were at it, to help her stay alive long enough to use her ability at least once (she has 16 less attack and 11 less life then 6 hero).

Well, it's card advantage where you get a choice of what you get, and does't contribute towards decking

Which is why it costs 3 , unlike Cherry. I just want it to be outside the 5 and unique range.

The Mitiring needs boosting too if Res is getting boosted. It's allready worse then Res with speed, a turn delay, taking up an effect slot, and being vulnerable to Effect D .

Maybe have it's activation cost removed?

That's fine by me.

That works.

I agree with the mitiring thing as well.

it depends on what we do with resurrection. I was looking through the thread and it looks like some people want Resurrection to be dropped to 0 or 1 if we do that, Mitiring should be totally free to play and use (with a sac of zero or 1), because of it's drawbacks. if Res is just dropped to 2 though, just free to use or to play would be fine.

so what happened here? it seems like we all agreed that Resurrection, Rebuild, Mintring and Lumi needed some kind of boost, mainly along the lines of a cost drop, but we never got around to figuring out the details and implementing it.

We had a balance holiday, that's all. Adjournment over, back to the arguments.

A brief, slightly biased summary for the cards in this thread (if you don't like the bias, reread the thread ):

Gift of Life: Got changed, done.

Apple: Got changed, done.

Space Burrito: Got changed, done.

Lucky Save: Quite a few approve of a partial if not full mana refund of the cost of the monster it is used on. The few objections were unfounded and based on confusion with the first idea of giving Res/Rebuild the same feature (which was rightfully shot down in flames).
web himself, however, seems to object to the idea:

webrunner Wrote:the reason Chroniton Gun refunds cost is because it's supposed to 'turn back the clock'. Lucky save doesn't do that.

Thus due to flavor reasons, we're back to the drawing board for Lucky Save.

Warp Gate: I mentioned it in passing and it got no attention. If Lucky Save gets a change it should probably be changed too.

Resurrection: Quite a bit of support for a cost reduction separated by debate that a cost reduction won't actually do anything to make the card any more useful than it already is (which is next to none based on seeing virtually no use in normal decks or in tourneys).
Based on IRC conversations, I believe this is how the two sides stand:

Those who want Res to give 2 cards one way or another (cantrip or 1 random card returned as well as one selected card from grave) believe Res isn't worth using over simply having a copy of a decent monster in your deck. Res costs mana to give you no card advantage while making it even more costly to play a monster you have already drawn, played, and killed during the match. At least with a copy of the monster, if you would of drawn Res you'd be drawing that same monster anyway without having to pay Res's cost just to put it in play again. On top of all that, if you need an Effect, spell or mod rather than a monster, you would of been better off with a Touch of Knowledge than with Res.
If Res returned 2 cards from the grave or cantripped, it'd be about on par with Touch of Knowledge because being able to get your monsters back is only good mid to late game while being able to draw more cards is effective at just about any point in a match (not to mention good in the rare instance you can deck your opponent).

Those who want Res to stay at 1 card returned from the grave consider being able to select the card you put in your hand to be a good enough advantage in and of itself. The idea is that once you have a variety of monsters in your grave, Res is a good card for getting back one specific monster that will help you in your situation.
They thus feel that cantripping would make Res even more useful than Touch of Knowledge due to both cards giving card advantage but with Res allowing you to pick 1 specific card as well as draw a card. Thus Touch of Knowledge would never be used anymore. On the same note, returning more than 1 card from the grave would again be making Res better than Touch of Knowledge because you are selectively getting specific cards. Also Res won't bring you closer to decking unlike Touch of Knowledge.

Rebuild: Pretty much same argument as Res. There's a slight difference in that the substitute card to Rebuild is a monster ability (Doctor Bakuga) while Res has a direct substitute card in Life. As such, Rebuild can still suck and it'd remain unique and continue to have a use; even if no one uses it.

The Mitiring: Same as Res again. Cost reductions aside, there was one idea for just making it so it didn't destroy on activation (added activation cost and dizzying per use) so that it could return multiple monsters over time.

Lumi: This is pretty much settled. 6 cost with a 3 activation cost. No one has objected or asked for anything less (less in terms of a boost) so at the very least it's a good starting point.

Resurrection: Returning more than one card from the grave wouldn't necessarily make Rez better than ToK "because you are selectively getting specific cards" - there's no way for a single ability/spell to pick multiple targets. The second card would have to be random (and incidentally, I'm fairly sure there's no code for that). webrunner has also previously vetoed this very same idea, many winters ago.

Cantrip doesn't really seem in flavour to me, but then again it rarely is (it seems to just be a generic acceptable spell balance). Balance-wise, it seems fine to me, and would be my preferred balance if it's allowed. If somehow this would put ToK into retirement, this could probably be upped to 4 at a later date (it was 4 originally, right?) - but I don't think it'd come to that really.

Rebuild: This could probably do with a cost reduction. I don't think cantrip is needed here.

The Mitiring: I'd just remove one of the two costs. I'd be against making it reuseable (it shouldn't be able to give card advantage).

Lumi: Eh, why not.

Lucky Save: I still liked my original (years ago) idea of making it cost 1, and an extra 1 if used on a unique monster. Nobody else does though. I could kinda see it at straight 1 but I'm thinking that's too cheap.

Warp Gate: If Lucky Save is boosted, this could do with a cost drop by 1 (particularly since the Lifetimer combo no longer exists also needs Electrical Spike).

Resurrection: I'm still in the zero-or-one-cost camp on this one.  Don't like the two-card solutions.  I maintain that it could be useful in certain decks where it's important to be able to bring back specific monsters, like Mechazors (as opposed to decks that only have one important monster, or interchangeable ones).

Rebuild: I'm okay with lowering the cost of this one, too, possibly as low as suggested above for Res, unless someone can make a good case for why that would break it.

Mitiring: I don't think you can make this useful compared to Resurrection without doing something like reusability, even if limited.  Or random bolted-on stuff like gaining life along with its ability.

Lumi: I'd prefer 5/4 instead of 6/3, but whatever.

Lucky Save: I think a straight 1 is fine-- no need for unique monster wackiness.

Warp Gate: ...will still be useful in Lifetimer/Spike decks even at current cost, but if you want to reduce the cost for more general playability, I guess I'm okay with it.

I'm personally against Mitring being reusable for flavor reasons. Doesn't it seems kinda off?