Meilar's Makeover

Dav1000 Wrote:Yes! And he should have Maintenance: Do the Hokey Pokey! And then explode!

That just plain ridiculous, why do the maintenance if it destroys the card?

Sorry, I should have been more clear. The exploding part was meant to be separate, not part of the maintenance.

Either way, my point stands: the Fantasy Cards forum is further up; this is the Balance forum.

Dav1000 Wrote:Either way, my point stands: the Fantasy Cards forum is further up; this is the Balance forum.

That's pretty much what I was thinking when I read this thread.

But making a take a ability that is almost never used and taking to make it do something, seems a lot more like balancing than make a whole new card

Having his ability have failure: dizzy seems fine to me. Failure: lose the ability is, like Dav said, something that should be left for the fantasy forum. We don't want to take a card that is, mostly, simple and easy to use and understand and make it into something weird and completely unique. Keep the beatsticky monsters with basic, core-set, utility-type abilities as they are and let the wacky multicolor crazy cards have the weird stuff.

Occam's razor Wrote:The simplest solution is the best.

Is making the ability 3 Target Dark Elf gets +8/+8 good enough? Do we really need to complicate it anymore than that?

I say it's fine with or without the failure: dizzy added in.

Blue_Elite Wrote:

Occam's razor Wrote:The simplest solution is the best.

Is making the ability 3 Target Dark Elf gets +8/+8 good enough? Do we really need to complicate it anymore than that?

If the simplest solution is best, then why not just change a number or two instead of changing the ability?

You need to learn a thing or two about simplicity...

The fundamental problem with his ability is it just doesn't fit such a high costing Monster, Dizzying to do +8/+8 is just so incredibly useless since it costs you an 85/85 attacker, no amount of stat/number/mana changes to him is really go to make the ability any less useless until you go too extreme with it, like making it +22/+22 or dropping his cost to 6 mana with 50/50 stats to keep a +8/+8 ability right. The numbers would have to be HUGELY changed to fit this, while a simple do not undizzy ability is just a tacked on mana cost per use.

A solution solves the problem. A simple numbers change, at least in my opinion, does not solve the problem here and thus isn't a solution.

Depends what you think the problem is. Meilar is a big Dark Elf beatstick with an ability you can use on defense. If you think that's a problem, then you just don't like the card. Which is fine, but a lousy balance argument.

Well, it depends on what the problem is.

Problem 1) The card is too weak.
Solution 1) Boost the card. It doesn't have to be an ability boost to make the card balanced.

Problem 2) The card is balanced, but the ability is too weak.
Solution 2) This isn't actually a problem.

Edit: Oh snap.

It's more problem 2. An 85/85 dark elf for 12 is pretty good as is in the right deck.

You're paying ~1 mana for his ability in comparison to Reckless Abandon so I don't think he's all that unbalanced on second thought.

I would be fine with boosting the ability a little (+15/+15, perhaps), but I don't think it's really necessary.

Nor do I. I wanted to change the ability without effectively boosting it. Making it more useful but not more powerful.

I don't follow.

The idea behind the non-dizzying and 3 cost was that people would be about as likely to use the ability was they would before. In the event they would like to use it, it is somewhat easier as you can still attack with Meilar afterwards but about just as hindering considering the cost is over priced for the benefit.
If it's not, no one said so and the price could be higher per use to make it so. Given no one wanted to make it cost more per use but certainly cost less per use, I thought I was on the right track.

Again, I'll point out as I did in the first post that certain aspects such as free use when you can't attack with Meilar anyway and using the ability to stop Meilar mid-attack in response to a spell would be lost. No one said they would miss that and only commented on either agreement with my proposal or slight variations on it.
If those aspects WOULD be missed, now would be the time to say so.

Blue_Elite Wrote:Nor do I. I wanted to change the ability without effectively boosting it. Making it more useful but not more powerful.

So...you're saying that you wanted to keep the power level but change the card. That is, you don't think it needs to be balanced. Yet you're posting in the balance forum suggesting a change.

I...but...gah!

There is huge aspect you all overlooking about Meilar, he is a big 12 mana monster, cards that cost that much NEED something more then just stats to make them useful.  Look at Dark Lord Khrima, there was nothing wrong with him balance wise to other monsters, he was a vanilla Dark Beatstick 100/105 the highest stated there is, but Boss a completely new ability was invented to balance him out due to the reasoning his stats are worthless if he dies as soon as he hits the field do to spells and him costing so much to play.  There was no way to balance him out with stats due the problem of just being such a high costing monster card.  Because simple stat changes are NOT enough for monsters costing this high, they need to have a good ability as well, else you might as well just use golems if you wanted beatstick monsters that are only good for attacking and defending, because that would be far more effective.  If his ability is useless it effectively makes him useless as well because he costs so much to play.