Meilar's Makeover

Hooray! Let's focus the entirety of balance efforts on cards within two mana cost of one another rather than considering the full impact on the game!

I mostly like the mana-but-no-dizzy-for-a-boost proposal because it adds an interesting, relatively new ability to the game that makes reasonable sense and makes the ability more likely to be a usable alternative. Having Meliar dizzy to boost a single creature by a rather negligible amount is useless unless you're stuck using him solely for defense or, for some reason, need some other generally-a-weakling dark elf to survive a turn more than you need to deliver a freaking 85HP of hurt. At C speed it does act as a sort of counter against a rather sizable number of dizzier effects, but the boost is a bit small to make much of a difference even then.
And don't throw Elflands at me. That's 10 extra to play, another 1-2 a turn (compared to having a neutral charm out instead), and if you have enough mana generation and/or surviving Manamancers to get away with playing both, you SHOULD gain that huge an advantage after having them sit dead in your hand the rest of the game.

Hmmmm. Tough call. If the ability is intended as a point defensive boost for another elf when on the defensive or when opponent actions prevent him attacking, a boost to... I don't know, anywhere from +10/+10 to +15/+15... would make it useful a bit more often. If it's intended as a boost to elves in general as part of his presence (lol morale) it's not like he can't make an inspirational speech while leading the charge, and mana to maintain his concentration in doing so is fitting enough, with the added variety as another bonus.

I'd be fine with an Ability boost... boost or switching to 3 instead of dizzy, with or without fail:dizzy.

Probably good to take a vote at this point (underlined names have equally voted for more than 1 category):

3 Target Dark Elf gets +8/+8: Vincent, Blue_Elite (fine with Failure added), �ルノ, Ryusei(prefers 2 activation cost), CM-03 GOSPEL(not against Failure added)
Total: 5(4)

3 Target Dark Elf gets +8/+8 (Failure: dizzy): sXeAndriex, Noodle, �ルノ
Total: 3(1)

Target Dark Elf gets +15/+15: Serith(prefers higher boosts), Noodle, �ルノ, Ultros(possibly more boosts), bubbleman2, Tamdrik(prefers greater boost; fine with non-dizzy?), Kennisiou
Total: 7(5)

Target Dark Elf gets +8/+8 (no change): Exile, Dav1000(boost if anything), NOLDER(non-dizzy + Failure acceptable), Nacho
Total: 4

+15/+15 or 3 +8/8 Failure: Dizzy

I don't care about the failure cost, and think it's an unnecessary addition if the ability is changed.

I'm for the first or third options (no dizzy, no failure cost or +15/+15).

edit; If it stays as a dizzying ability I think it could be more than +15/+15 (maybe +18 or +23).

I like 3: Target Dark Elf gets +8/+8 option best. Dizzy seems pretty pointless addition to me, and doesn't really seem necessary for balance.

Let's change it entirely and make it Like Paladin General giving all Dark Elves a constant attack boost or like Slime Champ/Kelar General to give a larger boost every turn to all dark elves.

Vote for two. Again.

vote for 1, but i don't really care if 2.

I'll vote for +15/+15. Likely not enough, but I'd rather the ability remain a dizzying ability; it's worthwhile if it's high enough, so we shouldn't change that. We can boost it again if +15/+15 isn't enough.

Actually, I've changed my opinion. I'd rather not make Meilar overpowered in comparison with other high-cost monsters. I think we should make the boost stronger by changing the numbers a bit, but otherwise it's fine. I vote for +15/+15.

Also, as a side-note: remember the thing about how it can be used to buff monsters that can get by diplo? +15/+15 kind of hurts that.

Not if you use Kelar Citizens or something.

I'll go with 1, don't care if it has the dizzy failure option or not.

i'd rather it wasnt changed
but if it is changed i'd go with failure:dizzy option

The main realization I came to was how effective Meliar's ability is as an indirect counter/workaround/alternative to defensive dizzying or other "wait, I shouldn't have attacked" moments, especially those below C speed (like most of the dizziers, aside from Electrical Wipe or whatever it's called). That's a decent advantage to have, but as it stands, the stat boost is too small to make THAT huge a difference even when it is used for pure defense.

As for getting by Diplo or not: How many Dark Elves have between 45-51 attack, the range most affected by this change? Only... Faritin and Kelar Zombie. Zombies generally aren't expected to survive, and Faritin's ability discourages risking him on the offensive somewhat. There ARE a few 30-attack, beatsticky Kelars that would be affected by the second use, but getting to max efficiency with one of them two turns earlier (1 turn for 45 compared to 3 turns for 54) is probably worth the 9 attack difference.

I like the mechanic, but I can go either way on putting it on Meliar, especially if Prime is supposed to remain as simple as is reasonable; having the boost be enough to be more than a time-waster to avoid dizzying should be enough help.
I'd still like to see it somewhere, but we'll see.

For the record, I'm extremely opposed to totally changing the ability, but no more than usually opposed to merely boosting it.

I don't really like options one/two, as they would be changing the card's ability a bit too much.

The more I think about it the more I'd prefer merely an improved dizzy ability.

Though I'd like something like +18/+18, to keep his ability in the theme of not following breakpoints.

it's probably too late to suggest a new balance option, but i've thought he'd work better as a ":dizzy: all dark elves you control gain +8/+8"
just throwing it out there.

Well this has become a fine mess. Votes are roughly equal for either boosting Meilar's currently ability or changing it.

In general, those who want the ability to not dizzy like the idea of being able to use it on occasion but still always have the option to attack with Meilar after using his ability.

The group that wants to boost Meilar's current ability are varied in their reasons. Some want to keep the dizzying for canceling Meilar's attacks, some want to keep the ability free for the cost of dizzying, some simply don't want to change the ability as radically as taking away the dizzying and adding a cost, and still others simply want Meilar to give more stats for his ability.
Given the diversity in reasoning for keeping Meilar's ability as is, I cannot think of a compromise change that would satisfy all groups. There's making it so targeting himself would cause him to dizzy (with non-dizzy + activation cost), but that makes the card overly complex (anti-radical change group) and makes his ability useless for boosting himself (boost the ability group). There's lowering the activation cost proposed to make it an actual boost (instead of just a change), but again that doesn't solve the problem a great number of other groups have with the changed ability.

About the only thing agreed on is that SOMETHING needs to be done. If someone can think of a way to make it so Meilar can use his ability as is (1 use per turn, no cost) and still attack afterward, that would solve most of the problems.

No, because that would be radically changing the ability. That's not a balance change--that's a fantasy card change.

The Balance Codex Wrote:If changing numbers is enough to balance a card, you don't add or remove abilities.