Howard vs. Ardam: Heaven or Hell

That's not a bad idea if it's codeable.

And can be clearly worded.

I DO like it in theory, I just think it'd be tough to implement.

Hm, what about:
4 Lose equal to play cost of target hero in graveyard: put it into play under your control. Control Dragobo: Ability costs +hero cost instead

Might be too long, I don't know the text limit.

4 Pay cost of target hero
in graveyard and put it in play
If control Dragobo: Ability costs
1 to activate

If I'm off, we have about a line and a 1/2 extra to work with though it certainly won't look as clean.

- Summoning Dragobo when damaged or defending (ala VCH Wrench)

of the options given i like this one best

NOLDER, when is Howard ever going to live through a hit at 25 life?

I vote the other option, recently suggested.

Howard wouldn't have to survive to summon Dragobo. Just like VCH Wrench, as long as he takes damage/defends, the trigger will happen before he's destroyed.

That said, I don't like it personally as I don't see it as being useful. VCH Wrench has a chance to bring out a 6 or 11 mana powerhouse, Howard would be bringing in a 2 mana monster that's even weaker than he is.

I like the idea of a highly useful but extremely expensive ability on a weak monster similar to Fairy Peacekeeper:

Kennisiou Wrote:NOLDER, when is Howard ever going to live through a hit at 25 life?

I vote the other option, recently suggested.

GLOOP!

yeah i forgot he had such low life

umm

i'm actually sort of apathetic about either of these cards
i sell them to the public store when i get them because i know i'm not ever going to use them =/

i mean really paladin healer or laser surgeon seem so much better to me in a light deck

That's why Howards being changed and I think you're forgetting about Dragobo's extra sac and possibly sac site. But it's pretty clear right now that Howard is next to useless so long as Ardam is around.

Restricting by total mana cost is the only option for Life-type abilities. Scope can't be restricted to just hero types or colour or anything else. Just total mana cost.

Returning the card to play as a token would only be possible as a mimic of Abrasis' ability in that the card would also have 25% lifepoints. It could theoretically be done with workarounds by rezzing the monster then spiking it then obliterating it then creating a token from it, but there's still potential futureproofing issues there such as the triggering of certain Into Play abilities and constant obliteration immunity. So returning as a token is a no.

And there's no temporary DLG Damage: 0%. Workarounds for that just don't really work.

I might not understand coding very well, but how is it impossible to give a monster token status without giving it 25% life?

Abrasis's ability is literally: "remove target monster from graveyard, put token copy of that monster into first available play slot at 25% of default life value." It's a hard-coded mechanic in and of itself.

It's all one single mechanic, not a series of them. When masa said there's a work around, that's exactly what we meant. A long series of different mechanics can all be triggered at once to give the impression of a token copy of a monster being put into play. However, there is no direct, single mechanic that allows reviving a monster with all of Abrasis's ability except the 25% default life part.

Found a decent example:
Kobayashi's ability reads - koba = The monster has a 20% chance of being treated as having 100 attack in each combat.
You can't have Koba's ability on a monster and change the chance to 50%, make the attack 75 on trigger, or change the trigger to work when he's targeted by a spell. It's all hard-coded specifically to trigger at 20%, at 100 attack, and in combat.

And I don't assume we could quadruple the life of he monster after it comes into play? Anyways, I don't like any continuous revival if we cant make the monster a token. To easy to abuse by continuously brining back

I wouldn't really call that abuse on a 22/25 unique monster, though if you have a good reason of why it would be abusable then I'd like to hear it.

Thought I deleted that part... anyway, my problem is that no mater what the cost, a 3 mana monster shouldn't be able to give you infinite card advantage like that, bringing back a monster a turn. Actually, why not drop the cost to 3+mana without dragabo and copy mindleaf, 25% life and all?

Why, exactly, is Howard just reviving so bad? I'm really not getting what's terrible about a 25 life card that requires itself and another fragile monster on the field +monsters in the graveyard (= not infinite) the ability to return one monster a turn for more than that creature's mana cost.

I'd rather not see it be a Mindlef token resurrection. I don't see how bringing the actual card back can be too powerful... If the opponent can kill your beatstick multiple times, they can almost certainly kill Howard. Unless, of course, you're throwing monsters across mountain ranges into walls with no reciprocation ... in which case Healer Ardam, Lumi, or ZFF-01 Drone would work just as well.

I know, let's make it heal and give +5 life!  That's the best solution ever, which is perfectly fine because Howard is at a different break point.

But Webrunner already consented a full concept change and adding +5 life would still keep the card too similar to Ardam.

That might have been sarcasm.