Bah, Sheena attachment issues

For anyone who didn't get it, yes, my reply to DemonCowboy's post was a joke, meant to be taken as seriously as masa's reply to it.

I'm voting no change.
Although I will admit its a little bit unflavorful.... On the other hand what happens when a shadowforce heart is placed in a npc? Dont they go all evil and berserk and such Similarly, you just made an entity unstable by putting instability on it. Is it going to act normal?... Exo suit is outright unflavorable frankly though... but its barely been touched on and is really the B grade combo...
I personally have something akin to this combo in my gravity sword deck, Sheena+exo suit, more often. Its effective yes. But its one weak monster thats indestructible-even back when I used shadowforce on it. It can be easily overwhelmed. Its good yes. But shadowforce can be delayed and constantly hurts you... And Instability doesn't save Sheena from 1 global damage... Basically preventing this combo from being broken. Very good yes... But not broken. I know its been said before... But I have used everything but instability with her... and while it tends to save my ass sometimes, other times its just not nearly enough.

That said. If a change must be forced. ATK=0 would be highly preferable. Cant attack would iritate me to no end, and need the card to be made cheaper or in some other way better. No more flanking with an near-invincible?! Seriously. Thats a hell of a nerf.

Am I the only person who doesn't keep a global damager in nearly any of my decks?

I don't, though I do have my Khrimech deck which is based around the concept. Really, global damage isn't that popular. While it's been a long time (probably... WotW), when I was running my Tsuitachi deck I only ran into global damage every dozen or so opponents. Just a comment, take it with a fistful of salt.

Blue_Elite Wrote:Just by question DemonCowboy, were you using her in NPC form or Maid form? Cause unless you fight opponents that use a lot of Stun Grenade, Missilepod, Khrimech, and/or War Diane, she pretty much is invincible.

actually blue - so much as metal babble will take her out - then it's just a case of who has an undizzy spell in their hand at the time - plus several other cards will do the same thng - anything that attacks globally and even then even if she does manage to survive a global attack turning to maid form then she can b hit w/ reclamation - she is vulnerable so i still fail to see the complaint

"So much as a metal babble" doesn't mean much when most people don't use metal babble - or most other global damagers for that matter. I only see Diane and Misslepods once in a while, and Khrimechs not very often either; I almost never see metal babbles or stun grenades. Some of those (Misslepod in particular) are pretty decent, but none of them can just be thrown into any deck. The point being that global damage is not that common - it's actually rather rare to see any.
(I kill her with The Dark Quadrant, myself.)

That being said, I don't really have an opinion on the matter. At first glance I'd say she doesn't really need a change, but I've never tried any of these combos myself.

well instead of nerfing the combo let it be then it simply gives reason for globals to b used more expanding the variety of decks *shrug*

now if i can only figure out a good rush negator...lol

"Don't nerf the overpowered combo, just put cards to counter it into all of your decks."

So... this your first foray into the balance forum?

"Don't nerf the totally fine combo, just put cards in some of your decks that are really quite good, and happen to be able to stop it."

The point is that there aren't too many commonly used global damagers, so those alone don't make a broken combo of this nature not broken.

What happened to people playing Miasma + Tower/Mountain Range? Or TBH decks using Magic Staff?

Or Minefield.

Minefield doesn't really destroy the combo as ten attacks/turns is plenty enough time for you to win with her. I don't see TBH/Magic staff used all that often and Miasma decks are exceptions that kill pretty much all beatsticks like TDQ and Soulsphere do. I suppose "too many" might have been rather vague, but all I really meant by that post is that the fact that global damagers exist isn't a very good argument against this combo being broken.

Let's see. A 50/51 is worth about 5.5 . This combo costs 575, 2 cards, and 20 life a turn. If we assume Sheena's uniqueness is worth the .5 off color mana, then that would put invincibility to everything but global destroyers, Miasma, etc... at 57, 2 cards, and 20 life a turn. That sounds fair and not at all broken to me.

Here's the list of offensive (no Soul Taker) monster Global damagers/destroyers (used "all" in text search with NightWind's searcher):

Limited Targets:

Drawback/Has a Restriction:

Non-Booster Cards:

Confusing? I had a hard time categorizing (as well as deciding what constituted "offensive") so there are at least a few cards omitted like Minefield.
You might argue the Malatak's "restriction" of having to deal damage to a monster to cause global damage isn't much but I threw him under that category due to that and his cost (13 =/= utility card). Also Marcus technically is "Limited Targets" but given you have to give him to your opponent manually and at a total cost of 10 I felt it fit better as "restricted".

If Freezing Wind was available in booster packs I would certainly say there is a good utility global damager card that anyone can use (i.e. no drawback/restriction to take into account). About the closest alternative is Diane whom is a weak monster rather than a spell or Effect (i.e. not exactly a "throw-in" card as you have to protect it in a monster-focused game).


To address Exile's question:
Miasma: Deck theme card; not a throw-in for any deck.
Minefield/Tower/Mountain Range: Non-offensive; opponent given an opportunity to counter at their leisure. Also tend to be theme cards for stall with the exception of Minefield which really is a nice utility card thanks to sac = cost.
TBH: 11 =/= utility card. Magic Staff isn't really a "throw-in" either much less the two together.

Have fun getcarding?

There's a list that pretty much works for Sheena on the Light NPC page on the wiki (yeah it could probably stand to be somewhere better, but it's there for now). It's not categorised or anything of course.

Eternion, Soulsphere, Marcus, The Nothing, FoH, Magic Staff, Y3C, and Library of Fire are the only ones of those that will normally have a very good chance of destroying the combo.

@Nacho: I personally consider the ShadowforceHeart combo broken, but I'll admit that it's all subjective. Compared to Vendor NPC, she costs ~2 more (converted for all that formula's worth anymore), one extra card and is able to attack (though to be fair she does have ten less attack and a twenty life maintenance). In my opinion, the ability to attack is well worth the combo's short-comings and then some, which is why I think the combo's broken.

masamunemaniac Wrote:"Don't nerf the overpowered combo, just put cards to counter it into all of your decks."

So... this your first foray into the balance forum?

bubbleman2 Wrote:"The point is that there aren't too many commonly used global damagers, so those alone don't make a broken combo of this nature not broken."

just cause they're not used doesn't make it a bad combo - if cards aren't used u DON'T nerf combos or cards to continue the disuse of cards - if anything else this combo and others are a GOOD thing - it will inspire variety in the decks - it's not the fault of the combo if u don't want to use a card or a type of card - it's not hard to build a different deck u know - i keep a few decks because i've not found 1 yet that covers all possibilities. i say let the unused cards finally start getting used!!!!

EDIT: b4 there are plenty of ppl complaining about this post, let me explain, when trying to balance a game you're doing just that balancing the game as a whole - that means encouraging all the cards in the game to b used and them in turn be useful - not getting beat by some card or combo and whine that it's too strong because YOUR 1 little deck couldn't handle it , ESPECIALLY not when there are PLENTY of cards that could have done the job. the point of the cards is to be used - so balance should b to encourage the use of those cards that aren't used not to make all but a few cards usable to a limited group's desires.

if you want to talk balance then talk balance as far as the GAME is concerned, not as far as YOUR deck is concerned

You're saying that we should only play decks that can counter anything thrown at them. Which is a good point ... in a tournament. Outside of that, there are many decks (such as theme decks) that don't have room or can't use such stuff. Like I said before, global damagers do not fit into every deck. If you're playing an Ooze deck, it would be a very, very dumb idea to also be playing Magic Staff and Volcano.

Here's a hint: Let's say there's a spell combo that costs, say, 5 and wins the game instantly. The solution to fix it is not to say "just play counterspells in every single deck".

Please note that I personally don't think the combo is that bad. I just don't think your reason as to why is a very good one at all.

there is NO deck that can beat every deck nor should there be - there are strategies in some decks that others just cant match - don't complain about a combo because YOUR deck can't beat it - build another deck that can - simple as that

there never should b 1 deck that could beat everything

but u did miss my point completely - my point is that balance should be to balance the game - not just the cards that every1 plays. balance should encourage unused cards back into decks that is the point i was trying to make

Okay, I think I see what you're saying. You're saying we need to have...

A boss monster in every deck to avoid TDQ (because there's no point to putting as many slime travellers in a deck as it would take to get rid of every quadrant in your average TDQ deck)
A global damager or destroyer in every deck to avoid sheena combos
Some form of location defense in every deck to stop location-based stall
Enough counterspells to stop reclamation spamming (five, six, seven?)
Monster D, Effect D, and/or entity D to destroy powerful cards like Miasma Factory, Magic Staff, and more since the list goes on and on
Undizziers to stop dizzy-lockdowns from Archangel Dominic
Dizziers (and fast ones, too) to prevent people from using powerful, multiple sniping combos with monsters like Sparks
Modifiers to stop decks that spam stasis field

The list of "essential" cards to stop the sheer number of lockdown techniques goes on and on. Since utilities like monster D, location defense, and counterspells are never going to take up as much space in a deck as the opposing deck will have for their key cards, not only are there higher chances that they'll draw their overpowered combo than there are that you'll draw something able to stop it, but they have more of them to draw, too, so even if you draw all of your effect destroyers against a miasma/staff deck they'll still have more staffs and factories to play after you've used all of your stuff to stop them.

So cards that are less played should be made better in comparison to the good cards? What about when there are cards that are way above and beyond any of the others? Are you saying Reclamation should have been kept at 34 cost, but every other destroyer should have gotten a cost drop of 2 or 3 mana to make them more playable? It's better to fix the overpowered cards to make them less able to rape the moderate and underpowered cards than it is to make all of the moderate and underpowered cards even better.

As for the disruption issues I mentioned above, well, that's just a CMC thing, really. In other card games (like magic) it's much easier to handle these kinds of things. In magic, there's a card that can stop the opponent from playing any non-land card at instant-speed for only the cost of that card, another one, and one life. If CMC had more cards like that then maybe over-powered decks like this would be easier to stop. Perhaps we need to look at broadening the target-range of some of our cards or making them easier to use?