Bah, Sheena attachment issues

Yes, yes I can. In fact, that makes it much easier to explain. Give me a day or so and I'll whip up some techno babble for you.

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Nacho Wrote:31-Brick Wall; 34,306,307,308,309,642-NPC; 71-Fog of Confusion; 267-Force Field; ...

Anyone else read that as "34 quadrillion, 306 trillion...etc." at first glance?

yes x_x

Very nice Ultros.

I'll also agree that this thread isn't really the place to discuss the other cards. This is for Sheena and a powerful combo, not mods in general (as I mentioned, "mods in general" should have it's own topic).

To address all the "whining" I have been accused of, I'll just say this. If we all followed the philosophy of its not unbalanced just keep changing strategies nothing would ever be balanced. I was well aware of the ways around it, I have decks which would get by on it. It was just a rising trend I was noticing.

Also pointing out no deck is unbeatable is pointless. You'd have to be delusional to think otherwise.I never claimed the combo was unbeatable, however a powerful 98% invincible monster will throw off MOST decks. And therein lies the problem.

sXeAndriex Wrote:On flavor- how you feel about it is inconsequential. It's an inherent part of the game's intended design and we have to respect that. It's the same reason we couldn't rebalance... say Wrench System to produce a gremlin token whenever the opponent plays a spell. It would help the card, but it wouldn't fit the card. The balance codex has all this stuff.

my point on that is - the second more than 1 comic was introduced to it - all aspects of flavor essentially went out the window especially w/ mods

so i say if u fix 1 aspect of flavor u should fix them all, if not fix them all then why bother? giving to my belief that most of this is because it doesn't fit the way some ppl like to play theme decks. the fact of the matter is that there are players that never even heard of the comics and found the game for a game of this type to be played online for free - i certainly never heard of the comics when i first came here and have only read any of them thinking there might b VCH codes in them. other than that i could care less about the pictures on the cards, just how they work. the way i see it the pictures and some captions are amusing and add to the games aesthetics only. and i bet there are several who feel the same way, maybe not most of the veterans that knew the comics first but pry most of the rest feel about the same way.

that being said; i still don't think it's the card at all but the mods that attach to them - i suggested giving sheena's NPC form lifebar as a way to fix the result of shadowforce heart because the point that she was so hard to kill w/ the current globals in the game. though, that is still just a bandaid.

other than that it's no much worse than putting shadowforce heart or instability on wizard (war) and wizard would be even more powerful from the get go that's why his higher cost because he doesn't NEED it. i think if any balancing needs to be done it needs to be done to the mods to fix the issues on a global scale.

i realize this is should be in another thread but it really seems to me that the root of the problem isn't in sheena herself at all. so my opinions don't change. maybe this convo should be re-directed to the mod system that i believe is the root of the problem.

Yes, but all of that? Entirely missing the point of my argument and the point of retaining flavor period in a similar way to Ultros post didn't actual reflect the reality of the complaint. Again, I refer you to the earlier posts about it here and the balance codex. If you have questions, I'll answer them... but as an argument, my response is simply that it doesn't follow what you're attempting to form a rebuttal to.

I mean, the opinion you mention ("my belief that most of this is because it doesn't fit the way some ppl like to play theme decks") has no proof and is actually contradicted by the argument people poised in this thread for why they prefer the change. Unless you can cite some proof, it's just wrong.

Similarly, just because some people haven't heard of the comics doesn't mean and the fact that you don't care about the comics has absolutely no reason to be in this thread. Your opinion is valid insofar as anyone's opinion is, but not in this context. Your personal opinion about flavor being meaningless... is in itself meaningless. Again, the Balance Codex contains the rules for balancing that was are to follow. There's some flex room, obviously, but you can't just ignore the rules at your leisure.

The rest about modifiers and such, yes, you have a point as I mentioned earlier (I can't tell if this part is supposed to be a response to me or not, so I'm replying anyway.) I would personally be more interested in a constant atk=0 than lifebar simply because it would also solve any other possible problems with modifiers in the future. Not really my stance, but I think it's a far more elegant solution. Mainly because I like saying "elegant".

actually you missed MY point that once the comics were mixed all traces of flavor became nonexistant - i never ONCE saw shadehawk fighting w/ nor along side a kelar in ANY comic for example - and when did star something invade ANY other comic to start putting stasis fields on everybody? where's the flavor in any of that?

the point is what the characters the cards are based off do in the comics totally goes to hell when mixed w/ other comics thereby tearing all semblance of flavor to shreds. the only way that flavor ever COULD stay w/ the game is to give each and every card special rules and that would be a programming nightmare and detract from gameplay - making all the cards harder to use only certain cards could play w/ certain cards - it'd kill it.

flavorable only works to a point that it doesn't detract from the gameplay itself. therefore given what cards like shadowforce heart are designed to do you can't keep flavor. it'd be a waste to do so in my opinion, so it's a bad example but it'd be like using ANY boost card on a grey NPC completely changing it's nature and killing flavor. does that mean we have to give all NPC's a constant attack of 0 or can't attack as well?

it seems to me the topic has changed from a broken combo with sheena to how mods effect flavor
i think we should either get back on the topic of sheena or someone should make a thread to discuss mods

Yes, that's what I mean by you missing my point. You seem to be under the belief that the flavor issue has to do with a second card not being flavorful when interacting with Sheena. That's not the case. I'm done discussing this until you either go back and read or try to ask questions instead of insisting I have no idea what I'm talking about without citing something I've said that proves your point. I'm sorry if this seems rude, but it's a waste of my time otherwise and... well, I'm going to waste the time anyway, but in cooler ways.

It's not just mods that effect flavor, it's any card that can effect another card. I listed 20 cards that, for flavor reasons, shouldn't be able to damage things. It's not just that holograms and mirages shouldn't have exo-suits or cybernetic hearts, but that you shouldn't be able to Motivate them into dealing more damage, they shouldn't become stronger from passion, they shouldn't be capable of holding Katanas, etc...

Which honestly was a terrible list but I was avoiding commenting as I'm trying to be less insulting in here. However, I'll briefly comment that there's a difference between a card that seems like it shouldn't deal damage and one that designed specifically to mimic the idea from the source material to not deal damage. Brick Wall is (a terrible example. Wait, not going to do that) not from a comic where it is made by Nerf and used as a pun where Shadehawk swings into expecting death and instead finds that weird, mildew tasting plastic. Nor was it then created as a card with abilities designed to prevent every stat boosting card currently in existence from affecting it.

As this is the third time this misconception has come up, I'll actually explain it again instead of sanctimoniously assuming people are capable of reading. My mistake. Sorry, that one was too funny not to post.

Anyway, this is not a complaint about cards interacting changing flavor. This is not a complaint about two universes created as singular and distinct entities being mushed together and contradicting each other in an attempt to create a fan-gasm. I'm a comic fan. To me these are wonderful, sexually arousing traits for a realm of fiction. The problem here is that it violates the flavor of one card. One card that was created to prevent this from happening. It's flavor of the card, not of the comic character. It was designed to do something that it currently does not do. It is a complaint that is essentially the same as changing the sacrifice bonus wrought by the old incarnations of First Avrillian. The intention was there, but changes to the system have caused a way for you to be able to circumvent the precautions put in place while simultaneously creating an arguable balance problem with the card anyway.

That is the argument I'm referring to and have been whenever flavor is mentioned. Now, as for my own point of view (as they are not one and the same, I have simply been trying to make sure people don't forget points as this thread becomes longer) I think arguing the flavor of two cards interacting is insipidly stupid, the combo is too cheap for what it currently produces, the flavor of the card Sheena proooobably has been violated through use of this combo (though I can't say I'm certain), and that Sheena used in conjunction with modifiers is not broken, just unfairly strong in comparison to the majority of the game. If there were more cards that could defeat the combo (specifically more spells, in my opinion) it probably would be fair, but the limited number of options means that it is simple too strong in it's current incarnation. Sort of how Sheena itself was too strong, though not broken, when it was first introduced. To me, it is simply a matter of cost (2 cards, 7L+... we'll say 5D 5G since people dislike shadowforce the most) not equaling value (invulnerability to something like 950 of the 1000 cards in the game.)

and your still missing the point that when u mix cards in your comic-gasm that flavor is irrelevant lots of cards aren't supposed to do things that they can when u introduce other cards to them - if she comic-gasms first and better then don't get mad, let her enjoy it.

if you want and i can get permission so i don't violate any copyrights i could pry very poorly draw a comic where sheena bitch-slaps some1 and causes damage - would that satisfy your flavor issue?

your other issues though, are more credible so we can get back to arguing them...lol

DemonCowboy Wrote:and your still missing the point that when u mix cards in your comic-gasm that flavor is irrelevant lots of cards aren't supposed to do things that they can when u introduce other cards to them

No, you just read a section of my post and ignored the rest for the fourth time. That's what I'm saying. That not what I ever said. I just made a post that said the EXACT OPPOSITE.

Man, I hope you're Noodle just trying to drive me insane.

I'll just say that I agree with Andriex and that his post addressed what you're saying Demonic Cowboy. Actually, I think several of his posts addressed that...

yes and i'm saying you're dead wrong because it violates more than just 1 card it violates the flavor of many.

and no i'm not noodle but i am having fun driving you insane.. this is becoming more fun than where i used to chat IRC...lol haven't been in the room for the game much - just 2ice and it was dead both times

Oh, you haven't done it yet. Again, I talk to Noodle. On a regular basis. He's far, far out of your league. There was a point of about three months where he would subtlety alter the sex of my forum account at night while I was asleep. You're just testing my new "less insulting on the balance forum" oath.

If you want to make the point that it violates the flavor of multiple cards that have the exact same systematic set up as sheena, cite examples. If you want to make the point that it's a good or bad thing that it does this, make a point. So far, you've just said "this apple on my desk if green."

and u've done nothing but say that it's supposed to be red

...wow, you didn't even understand that metaphor. I'm just going to stop now, as this is... sad. Little bit depressing. I'm pretty sure the point is made and people can make up their own minds on how they feel about that.