Synergy in CMC

So, a lot of my posts have been trying to get more cards with more synergy to make CMC more interesting.

Of course, because the topic was just about boosting cards in general, other and better(pfft) ideas were suggested. Well, this thread is about boosting underpowered cards that may or may not have synergy already. By giving them synergy (or improving synergy they already have.)

Starting with Lowly Slime

This just doesn't seem as good as it did when the idea was first presented to make it destroy itself and make another slime gain half its stats.
Only idea I've got is
Destroy Lowly Slime: Target slime gets 75% of Lowly Slime's current stats.

Onto Skeletal Soldier.

This card just isn't worth it most of the time, and the 15 life second life hurts more than help most of the time, unless you have enough board control that you can afford to pay the 15 life and 5 to keep bringing it back out. But most of the time, unless you're running the one synergistic card that skeletons have, it's better to just run Garshask, Winged Demon, K-Golem, or Media Player Ray.
Ideas:
Destroyed: Gain 5 life for each other skeleton you control.
or
Has +5 attack for each other skeleton you control.

Next is Lumi

No changes to the ability, just change type to unique cleric hero.
For flavor reasons.

Now, K-Army Guy

This seems like the only 1-mana monster that's now fucking worthless in my opinion. If you ever play it, it's probably going to be for its attack, and not its ability. Holy Acolyte, Kelar Citizen, Lokar Guard, and some others I probably can't think of right now have decent synergistic abilities, so I don't know why we should leave K-Army Guy out.

My suggestion is to have all soldiers gain +1 attack for each other soldier in play. Though I'm worried this might bring back K-Army Guy rush, but at least it'll take four K-Army Guys total to just get that +3 attack bonus.

And now a card that definitely needs to be brought up again. Wrench System

Yeah, this card is still no good. Knowing the names of the cards in your opponent's hand just isn't worth an effect slot.
Hacker synergy. That's what it should have. I just dunno what to do for abilities.

and now, Shining Dragon

This card isn't really worth running, and I doubt another cost decrease or a slight stat increase will make people run it more in light decks. So why not have another card that boosts Dragon decks?
Idea(thanks to Serith):
Dragons take 25% less damage.

Next up is Norlaan

He has a nice ability if you want to spend the mana for him, a Melrak Recruiter, and snipers. Or alternatively you can use VCH Sparks for a similar effect. I sort of want to go the Melrak Chantress route with this, but it might steal prime Norlaan's thunder.
Idea:
End phase: Undizzy all other followers and they gain +5/+5.
or
Draw Phase: Heal all followers you control.
Personally I like Draw phase: Heal all followers you control the best.

And another dragon. Venomic Dragon

While the 95% ToD and the high life is really nice, this card doesn't see much play. That's because it's really not that great. Let's keep with the venemous Theme and give it,
Whenever a monster is destroyed, all non-dragon monsters are poisoned for two rounds.

Trophy card now. Magmite Soldier

This should really have the soldier type. Why doesn't it?
This is also really weak compared to Jack 'o' All Trades. I guess the more life and burning is nice, but in my Magmite deck, Jack was a lot more useful with Volcano out. I sort of feel like it should have +5 attack. Or some other Magmite synergy ability. I'm not sure, you decide.
Also, Serith says the Burn status effect needs a stat boost and I'm inclined to agree.
Though so far my only idea is 10 initial damage.
(Also, Fire Kitsune can burn magmites? What's up with that? That doesn't make any sense. It's not important, but still.)

If you have any suggestions for changes, then please post them. Just remember the point of this thread is to introduce more synergistic decks. Not give all the cards +2/+2 stat increases.
and that's all I can think of for now. I'll probably edit it tomorrow when I get more sleep.

Wrench System: I've been thinking about this one (since I originally brought it up). The idea I came up with was if it also showed you the top card of both their library and your own. That would be a bit more helpful with repeated use (i.e. with Khrima's Address, Weather Forcast). edit: I'm not suggesting Hacker synergy for this one.

Magmite Soldier: I don't know if you haven't discovered this yet, but burning sucks. It's a rather weak ability, and is not nearly enough to make up for the comparison to Jack (it's not even nearly as good as Wildcard itself).

Honestly I think the status effect Burn itself needs a boost.

I think Burn would be good if it did 10 initial damage like Volcano does.

Of course, Hitodama might be a bit overpowered then. But still.

Lowly Slime- Agreed

Skeletal Soldier- I like the first idea, but I think it'd be a little too easy to actually GAIN life when it dies and still just be using a beatstick deck.

Lumi- Agreed

K-Army Guy- Nope

Wrench System- An additional bonus with hackers in play would be nice, but a lot of those ideas were shot down last time...

Shining Dragon- I kinda like that...

Norlaan- I dislike the former (takes a lot away from Prime Norlaan) but the other idea ain't bad. Healing remains kinda weak though since they're followers and all. Also: How would you fit extra text on the card? I can see "all other followers" but that only removes about six spaces. Honestly, lowering the cost might be the best option here simply for space constraints.

Vemonic Dragon- Is fine.

Magmite Soldier- Yeah, it should have soldier. It should also be GOOD. +5 atk sounds good enough.

Skeletal Soldier and K-Army Guy are fine as is. No opinions on the others.

Lowly Slime: I don't like how 75% leaves fractions from the default 13/13, but yeah, balance-wise I don't really care. EDIT: This is irrelevant, the current 50% leaves fractions too :/

Skeletal Soldier: 15 life isn't a lot. So long as the opponent isn't using a sniper, this isn't a bad card for its Second Life.

Lumi: I'm kinda sure that webrunner's said that either this Lumi was from before she was a party member, or that she's more an alternate universe Lumi and not a member of the party (though he might've been talking about Lucinda, but the same would apply to Lumi in turn I think). Or both of the above. I'd say ask webrunner.

K-Army Guy: This lets you use it to chip away at a Lifebar monster, get it back to hand to fuel a discard, replace its slot with a better monster, get use out of the card with Diplomacy out, counter slow healing, deal damage while ignoring towers/traps/mountains, etc etc etc. It's fine as is.

Wrench System: If we can get a consensus and an agreement from webrunner, sure. Might be best to ask webrunner for permission/suggested ability first?

Shining Dragon: Given the existence of Scorpion, I really can't disagree with boosting this. I like this idea. Thanks to Serith.

Norlaan: No. Cost or stats would be the way to go here, the ability is fine.

Venomic Dragon: This is fine aready.

Magmite Soldier: Soldier and +5 attack. Also, magic/spectral fire or whatnot.

Burn: If anything, make it deal 5 damage when it expires. That is, "Draw phase: Monster takes 5 damage, 50% chance to lose status", instead of "Draw phase: 50% chance monster takes 5 damage, otherwise lose status". But that requires a webrunerchange (as would any other changes to burn).

Ultros Wrote:Skeletal Soldier and K-Army Guy are fine as is. No opinions on the others.

I agree with Ultros.

masamunemaniac Wrote:Norlaan: No. Cost or stats would be the way to go here, the ability is fine.

Anyways. I'd really like to see your argument for why they're fine as is. Especially for K-Army Guy and Venomic Dragon and Skeletal Soldier. Have you ever actually used them?

I've used every card listed here, and once I replaced Venomic Dragon with Tough Dragon(in a dragon deck.), Skeletal Soldier with Winged Demon, K-Army Guy with more lokar guards, Prince Norlaan with Prime Norlaan, etc. my decks magically got better.

Of course, I'm only one person. But go on, make a deck and use these cards. I'd really like to see a fucking argument other than "The card LOOKS fine."

lowly slime- fine with suggestion

skeletal soldier- i'd say its fine

lumi- i'm staying out of this one for now...

k army guy- for 1 coster its actually a decent sniper if you get 5 in play
i'd say no change

wrench system- uh...maybe steal 1/1/1 along with seeing their hand?

shining dragon- yes

norlaan- i like heal

venomic dragon- i'd say one round...but yeah...i like the idea...is it too strong though? maybe we could lower the ToD percentage a little bit? like...80% maybe?

magmite soldier- agree with giving it soldier

Can I just point out that that idea for balancing Skeletal Soldier is to make it do more or less the opposite of what it does now?

And what I had meant was that the cards presented in Prime of ADV/AFH characters existed in that universe, but they can still be counted as heroes (since uniqueness still goes across) - make her a hero, that's fine.

Noodle Wrote:Anyways. I'd really like to see your argument for why they're fine as is. Especially for K-Army Guy and Venomic Dragon and Skeletal Soldier. Have you ever actually used them?

K-Army Guy has the highest attack of the 1-costers, making it an excellent monster already. It doesn't need to have a great ability. And the ability that it does have comes in handy pretty often anyway; it's awesome against Lifebar, useful in Miasma Factory decks, and I'm sorry, but it is good in a Soldier deck, no matter what your experience has been.

Skeletal Soldier trades with a lot of monsters in the same cost range, and recurs itself for a really low cost; 15 life isn't much at all. Meanwhile, your opponent actually has to draw additional Winged Demons, the poor bastard.

Venomic Dragon, I'd say could use a small boost, but a numbers change (a small cost decrease, I'd say) would be fine; no adding abilities is necessary.

Ultros Wrote:

Noodle Wrote:Anyways. I'd really like to see your argument for why they're fine as is. Especially for K-Army Guy and Venomic Dragon and Skeletal Soldier. Have you ever actually used them?

K-Army Guy has the highest attack of the 1-costers, making it an excellent monster already. It doesn't need to have a great ability. And the ability that it does have comes in handy pretty often anyway; it's awesome against Lifebar, useful in Miasma Factory decks, and I'm sorry, but it is good in a Soldier deck, no matter what your experience has been.

Skeletal Soldier trades with a lot of monsters in the same cost range, and recurs itself for a really low cost; 15 life isn't much at all. Meanwhile, your opponent actually has to draw additional Winged Demons, the poor bastard.

Venomic Dragon, I'd say could use a small boost, but a numbers change (a small cost decrease, I'd say) would be fine; no adding abilities is necessary.

Noodle Wrote:Have you ever actually used them?

The fact is, K-Army Guy just isn't worth the you're going to pay to keep bouncing and replaying to do 15 damage. Instead, I'd rather pay one more and play a KRYLGRD that I top-decked with my Lokar Guards. There are much better, and in the long run, cost-efficient ways to snipe. Sure, KRYLGRD has the highest attack of all 1-costers, but Melrak Follower gains +2 attack on the draw phase, putting it at 19/10 by the time it undizzies, and it only keeps getting stronger from there. Kelar Citizen can dizzy itself to keep giving it +3/+3 each turn. Or you can dizzy it to boost your other dark elves to keep them alive.

The 19 attack doesn't mean shit, it is not as good a card as the other 1-mana monsters. Hell, I've even used Holy Acolyte very, very well in a cleric deck.

Now Skeletal Soldier is another card that makes me wonder if you've actually used it. If your Skeletal Soldier is dying, the chances are you're being pressured. Or you're underestimating the second life cost. That 15 life can REALLY hurt you. Unless you're running Hull Platings and Trader Ship, but Skeletal Soldier is expensive enough already.

Yes, I have actually used them. Thanks for asking.

EDIT: Okay, that was kinda rude; sorry. But please don't assume I'm only basing my opinions on guesses.

It's clear that we value the K-Army Guy's ability differently, I say that small repeated amounts of damage for a low cost can and often do matter, while you don't. Us arguing it further won't take us anywhere.

As for Skeletal Soldier, if it's dying, it can just as easily mean that it's your opponent being pressured, not the other way around. They're expending multiple cards to keep dealing with it so that they can avoid it swinging at them, or you're using it to take out multiple cards to keep them from getting board control. Repeatedly losing 15 life could hurt you, but you'd be losing far more each turn if their monsters were attacking you, instead. They'll generally be running out of cards before you run out of life. It's not usually going to win the game on its own, of course, but it does a great job of backing up your other beatsticks.

Noodle Wrote:Anyways. I'd really like to see your argument for why they're fine as is. Especially for K-Army Guy and Venomic Dragon and Skeletal Soldier. Have you ever actually used them?

Venomic Dragon? Yeah. I've found that a monster that kills whatever it touches and has 90 life works unsurprisingly well. But I don't know, maaaybe my experience with it is what's blinding me here - the couple of times that its ability had failed to trigger didn't make any difference to the game.

K-Army Guy and Skeletal Soldier I've not really used much outside of Spare Change (though incidentally, Skeletal Soldier worked really well for SC), but I have had both of them used against me on more than one occasion (outside of starter decks). K-Army Guy isn't usually great, but its ability has proven useful before (sure it doesn't happen often, but it happens), and it does do its job as a 19 attack 1 monster well when its ability isn't being used.

Skeletal Soldier though, it doesn't just die when you're being pressured. You deliberately use it to trade with the opponent's monsters. That way, your Garshask doesn't have to, and Garshask can get his unblocked attacks against the opponent. 15 life is worth, what, just over 1 (going by Infusor/Projector/etc)? And it's not hard to generate 5 per turn - that's four generators and your bastard opponent just Tremorcalled your fountain.

Lowly Slime- Agreed

Skeletal Soldier- totally fine. I've seen plenty of decks use him for his nearly free second life. He just keeps killing stuff.

Lumi- Agreed

K-Army Guy- fine in soldier decks, combos well enough with military machine.

Wrench System- Needs a total overhaul. Not only is seeing your opponent's hand not very useful, but it's even less useful the next turn, since they probably only added one new card, and might have even played it by now.

Shining Dragon- Good idea. Dragons need more synergy

Norlaan- I like the healing idea.

Vemonic Dragon- Could use an attack boost so he could actually hurt players, but nothing more.

Magmite Soldier- Agreed that burn should deal 10 damage, or atleast 5 and then expire instead of 5 or expire. either way he should get the soldier type.

Lowly Slime: I don't really have an opinion sadly. All I can remember was that 100% stat transfer had a bad downside to it (something like being able to convert an Equip Weapon to +att/+life or something). Can't say I see anything wrong with 75% change.

Skeletal Soldier:

-15/-5 stats, costs 1 less, has a moderate synergy ability (moderate because drawing 1 specific other card is somewhat difficult), and no Second Life penalty.

If your idea would be in addition to the current -15 life penalty on destruction, then maybe though I'd prefer you didn't actually gain life when Skeletal Soldier is destroyed (i.e. you negate the penalty completely at the most).
I can see Skeletal Soldier needing a boost, but not too strong of one.

Lumi: I personally think this card needs more than just a type change (removal of the double-edge aspect of its ability). If masa is wrong and adding type hero would be in flavor sure. Otherwise no.

K-Army Guy: I would be absolutely, positively against any sort of attack increase by ability or anything else for this card. It can win by being spamed as the only monster of a deck; it doesn't need anything that would improve that aspect.
No idea how to improve it but definitely not through attack/direct damage increases.

Wrench System: I'm going to agree with masa in that web should be consulted for this one. It's been brought up in 2-3 threads with no solution. I think it would be a good idea to turn to web for ideas.

Shining Dragon: Sounds fun sure.

Norlaan: I can't really see healing being associated with Melrak. None of the other Melrak Follower monsters increase life save for possibly in the future Chantress who boosts non-Melrak monsters. The text limitation is also a concern.
I'll agree that it does need something of a boost but that that boost should be a simple numbers change.

Venomic Dragon: 36 attack because of the boosted Unflattering Score? I could see a poison ability added though I would think it something more along the lines as a 5% chance of poisoning the monster if the DoT doesn't get them. If you want to make it a synergy ability, rounds poisoned = # of dragons in play?
Adding a poison ability I can see but the one you've proposed is too strong.

Magmite Soldier: +5 attack and type soldier sound good. Can't help you with synergies and there really isn't any room to add one sorry.

EDIT: Dang it! Can I please post without 2+ posts coming in before I submit?

Noodle Wrote:Not give all the cards +2/+2 stat increases.

You know what? Yeah. This was meant to be read as "NOT A NUMBERS CHANGE THREAD, CMC NEED SYNERGY"

But obviously my attempts fail because I'm not Blue_Elite or Masa. Okay, +10 life for Norlaan, +5 life for Skeletal Soldier, +5 attack for Venomic Dragon, still no other idea for K-Army Guy.

I suppose I might as well mention that I don't agree that more monster-type synergy would 'make CMC more interesting', compared to other abilities.

Card with an ability that doesn't depend on a particular creature type: "This could work well with a lot of stuff! You can try this in all sorts of decks!"

Card with an ability that depends on a particular creature type: "This only works well with X. Put it in a deck with a lot of X."

Not that I don't like a synergistic ability here and there, but overall, they're not as fun.

If you really want synergy, I could see giving Vemonic Dragon some sort of static attack boost based on the number of dragons you have, or the number of poisoned monsters in play (would work best if combined with blue's idea of poisoning them if they aren't killed).

Also, I'd like to bring up that Kemmit and Meck still suck too. I was going to post them but wasn't sure if it fit the whole synergy thing, since I'm going for tribal synergy and not specific cards.