Reka sucks.

bubbleman2 Wrote:Really, she's a beatstick. Just like how Dove is a weenie with a minor ability. A card can be decent at two things. Saying that she was meant to do one or the other just doesn't make sense with her current stats and ability. I'm against any sort of stat drop and any sort of boost to her ability because that goes against what the card was designed to do.

Did you just compare Reka to Dove? Seriously? It's getting harder and harder to refrain from the insults.

The difference between Dove and Reka is Dove was originally a weenie beatstick, and we gave it a minor ability to go along with it. Reka was originally intended to heal robots, not to be used as a beatstick. And because her ability is shit compared to Paladin Lifegiver's, I'm going for a change to ability and possibly a stat drop.

You're repeating a point that was already countered. She has a healing ability and good stats. She was originally intended to be both.

Oh, I'm positive that Reka was good when we just had Prime and Clash(not really.) But now she's completely overshadowed by Paladin Lifegiver.

And again, I think that pointing out her stats are not worth sacrificing self-healing for is a pretty good counter-argument to Nacho's point.

Noodle Wrote:Did you just compare Reka to Dove? Seriously? It's getting harder and harder to refrain from the insults.

Um, no, no I did not. I simply said she was a beatstick with a minor ability, just as Dove is. I was not comparing her stats or her actual ability to Dove. Really, people do it all the time.

Noodle Wrote:The difference between Dove and Reka is Dove was originally a weenie beatstick, and we gave it a minor ability to go along with it. Reka was originally intended to heal robots, not to be used as a beatstick.

What makes you think Reka's origional intent was not to be a beatstick with a minor ability? What gave you that idea? Because her stats and ability certainly don't point in that direction.

Noodle Wrote:And because her ability is shit compared to Paladin Lifegiver's, I'm going for a change to ability and possibly a stat drop.

But Paladin Lifegiver isn't even a proper comparison. Paladin Lifegiver's strictly a healer, Reka is not.

Edit: In response to the above post: I was the first one to mention Reka has beastick like stats, not Nacho...

Noodle Wrote:Oh, I'm positive that Reka was good when we just had Prime and Clash(not really.) But now she's completely overshadowed by Paladin Lifegiver.

And again, I think that pointing out her stats are not worth sacrificing self-healing for is a pretty good counter-argument to Nacho's point.

That's not what you said in your previous post at all. And you made that argument already, too.

I'm too fucking lazy to chop up your quotes, so here.

First point: It looked like a comparison to me.

Second point: Runner probably have commented on Reka being a beatstick first and healer second when I asked him about it, don't you think?

Third point: See second point.

EDIT: Yes it is. Maybe I made it out badly, but that doesn't mean Nacho and Bubbleman made their arguments any better. Stop with the unwarranted dickery, I'm sick of it. Seriously Ultros, cut that shit out.

Your counter-argument and Nacho's argument are pretty much flip sides of a coin, as far as I can tell.

You say her stats aren't worth sacrificing self-healing.
Nacho says her stats are worth sacrificing self-healing.

For all the comparisons and hypothetical situations and example scenarios, this is what it's boiling down to.

Quote:Stop with the unwarranted dickery, I'm sick of it. Seriously Ultros, cut that shit out.

I'm only pointing out that you're repeating things you've already said. Doing so causes balance discussions to get bogged down, and I'd like for you to stop. That's all.

Ultros Wrote:

Quote:Stop with the unwarranted dickery, I'm sick of it. Seriously Ultros, cut that shit out.

I'm only pointing out that you're repeating things you've already said. Doing so causes balance discussions to get bogged down, and I'd like for you to stop. That's all.

And I'm not the only one, so instead of focusing on me, why don't you point out other people repeating their points too? I repeat myself because I tend to get the impression people don't read what I have to say, and just look at what other people have to say.

So fucking cut it out, or give everyone else the same treatment. Please and thanks.

Noodle Wrote:I'm too fucking lazy to chop up your quotes, so here.

First point: It looked like a comparison to me.

How? How is that even close to an actual comparison? I was giving you an example of another card that can be useful for two different things and isn't extremely good at either one of them.

Noodle Wrote:Second point: Runner probably have commented on Reka being a beatstick first and healer second when I asked him about it, don't you think?

Third point: See second point.

These aren't valid arguments unless web commented on her being a healer first and a beastick second. This might be more productive if someone asked web what the original intent of the card was. I'm too lazy to do so right now...

Edit: In response to above post: I'm only repeating things because you're repeating things. If neither one of us has any new arguments to bring to the table then we should probably just agree to disagree.

Generally, when I'm making a deck, I have some idea of what I want to include.

When I want to make a robot deck and decide my robots could use healing, I'll use paladin lifegiver.
If I need a light beatstick, I'll use a light beatstick. There's quite a few options that have better stats from Reka, and in this case the "minor ability" will almost certainly be useless.

In my personal experience with the card, the stats have not been worth the loss of self-healing.

And if it bogs down the thread or you don't like it, why don't you take an unrelated issue outside of the thread. Neither pointing out perceived repetition in one person or perceived hypocrisy in one person will further this thread.

Please, this just isn't helpful.

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I think Serith states my point in wanting to rebalance this card very well (Far better than *I* have.) The loss of utility compared to other healers or other beatsticks really just makes Reka a not good card. Personally, I would like her to be the card that, if you need a non-robot beatstick in your robot deck, is the card you would choose bar none. I would like her to be the card that, if you need a healer in your robot deck, is the card you would choose bar none. In other decks, she should be a mediocre card but she should be the best choice for the decks she was designed to be included in. I think a health reset (or repair, if you will allow me such an indulgence :P) would make her both.

bubbleman2 Wrote:

Noodle Wrote:Second point: Runner probably have commented on Reka being a beatstick first and healer second when I asked him about it, don't you think?

Third point: See second point.

These aren't valid arguments unless web commented on her being a healer first and a beastick second. This might be more productive if someone asked web what the original intent of the card was. I'm too lazy to do so right now...

Runner has both declined ability changes before and will continue doing so. Don't you think he would have straight out rejected the whole changing of her healing ability if the idea behind her was to be a total beatstick with a little ability to make up for less stat points?

Serith's reasoning is good. That said, I like the health reset idea.

sXeAndriex Wrote:Does that include Ultros' idea for a change? Because I'm pretty sure that would change her from a versatile healer and beatstick into a useful healer and the exact same beatstick.

I could see Ultros' idea if she healed hackers or cats, or some other type of monster that only had mid and low costing monsters, and no huge beatsticks, but Robots have things like MX-42 Armormail and Chrome Dragon. Resetting their life is a big deal. I think Squirm already did a good job of pointing that out when he mentioned BoS and Giant Snowman combined with Reka.

sXeAndriex Wrote:Oh, and a card can both be a good ability monster and a good beatstick. She doesn't need to be a bad healer to be a good combat monster. Hell, look at Cody for the perfect comparison. It can dizzy robots and is a perfectly good 3 mana beatstick. Really, I think he should be the guidepost for Reka's balance.

Cody only works if your opponent is running robots. Like SKRAP, his ability is useless when fighting 90% of decks. Reka's ability should always be useful though, since she should always be put in decks with robots.

I really don't see Reka/Giant Snowman as so much worse than Giant Snowman Life Pick-Up. If it's unbalanced with life reset, it was already unbalanced. This won't change that. It will, however, serve to balance Reka.

You seem to have missed my point with Cody (I think.) It was an example of a card that has a good ability and is a good beatstick. Nothing more, nothing less. Unless you think Cody's ability is anything less than good, I'm pretty sure my point still stands. If you meant that because of it's conditional usage, it's said less than good or something I missed, let me know. I think it was just a misread of what I intended with the comparison though.

akujintails Wrote:Runner has both declined ability changes before and will continue doing so. Don't you think he would have straight out rejected the whole changing of her healing ability if the idea behind her was to be a total beatstick with a little ability to make up for less stat points?

I don't know, I'm not web and last I checked, nor are you and Noodle.

bubbleman2 Wrote:

akujintails Wrote:Runner has both declined ability changes before and will continue doing so. Don't you think he would have straight out rejected the whole changing of her healing ability if the idea behind her was to be a total beatstick with a little ability to make up for less stat points?

I don't know, I'm not web and last I checked, nor are you and Noodle.

When the fuck did I say I was web? When the fuck did she say it? I'm saying I checked with him. He would have said "no" to a new ability if he was thinking like you and Nacho.

webrunner Post #4 Wrote:There's also the full-heal ability or temp life.

Noodle Post #9 Wrote:I even asked Runner if he'd be fine with tacking an extra ability onto Reka/changing the ability prior to posting this thread because the situation is slightly different.

Just pointing out that Noodle has already asked web and web as in fact seen this thread already and could have voiced a "no-change" veto.

Also

Nacho Wrote:... but Robots have things like MX-42 Armormail and Chrome Dragon.

Chrome Dragon I won't bother addressing as Giant Snowman/Parade Robot are better choices anyway and Chrome is too expensive for splash.
MX-42 Armormail however, has been overpowered since MC was introduecd, has a solution for it, and no one has bothered to do anything about it!!!

bubbleman2 Wrote:

akujintails Wrote:Runner has both declined ability changes before and will continue doing so. Don't you think he would have straight out rejected the whole changing of her healing ability if the idea behind her was to be a total beatstick with a little ability to make up for less stat points?

I don't know, I'm not web and last I checked, nor are you and Noodle.

I am. I secretly created a second account so I could play without people bugging me all the time.

Serith makes the best point here. Full-heal with an activation cost, but lower than the robo-surgeon, I forget the exact name. (1-2)

Also, guys, hostile responses are also counterproductive to getting things done. Cool it.